The Gun Thread About Guns And Gun Related Gunnery

Tocky on 13/8/2022 at 21:01

Not brainwashed. Observant. They see who white supremacists support. They hear the same dog whistles that "good people on both sides" do. They know that they are not rich and that the first thing Republicans do is vote tax cuts for the rich which deprive their area of funds. It's not like this is hard to figure out. They know who help them with education programs and health insurance. Do Republicans really think they can fool people on those things? Please.

And most deaths by gun are suicide. But even so the difference per capita from rural to city is small. There are more people packed into cities. Of course there would be more crime there. Cletus and Roscoe have a shootout in the country but there are not nearly as many of them there and even then they are spread out. It's all logic once you get beyond Republican scare tactics.

Gangs are violent. Always have been even in the days of Capone. But in the country you have the meth monkeys who get into shoot outs. In the small towns there are bad neighborhoods. Black market goods that people want are always going to have violence associated with them.

My advice would be to quit being so scared you will lose your gun and to start thinking about all the people who are lost to them. They don't have to be taken away to make things safer. But there are common sense things which can be done.

Draxil on 13/8/2022 at 21:12

It's not absurd, what he posted is blatantly dishonest. His graph comes from a 2001 study from a journal of internal medicine. That particular graph looks at total deaths by gun type, including homicide and suicide. If you look at type of death (murder vs suicide) the rate is 10 points higher in the urban setting. Oh, and the data for this article came from Washington state, alone. It's illustrative of the reason that arguing about gun control with progressives is pointless; they're historical revisionists when it comes to the second amendment, they manipulate statistics, and they're unwilling to do anything that would actually have an effect on gun crime--i.e., enforce the laws already on the books. In 2019 the Department of Justice issued a (https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/suficspi16.pdf) report on where criminals get their guns. Unsurprisingly, most don't get their guns at retail stores, and fewer that 1% get them at gun shows. The reason for this is background checks actually work pretty well.

I'm not sure how many of you have actually completed Form 4473, but it is very clear when you fill it out that it is a felony to lie while filling it out. When it is complete and witnessed by the dealer, it is submitted to NICS; if you are denied because you flag as a felon, or domestic abuser, or substance abuser, or anything else--congratulations, you're eligible to spend the next 10 years behind bars. In 2017 NICS (https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/suficspi16.pdf) denied 112,000 such purchases to felons and others that were ineligible (automatic felony). The ATF ignored 100,000 of them and sent about 12,000 to its field offices for further investigation. They prosecuted 12. About 1 in 10,000. Major cities are lax in prosecuting gun crimes, straw purchases, illegal possessions etc., because putting more minorities in prison isn't a look that they want, politically. It's easier to focus on the AR-15, used in a tiny fraction of gun deaths, and used mainly by white males, than it is to do the politically inexpedient thing and prosecute the crimes and remove the criminals from the streets.

I'll believe Democrats are serious about reducing gun deaths and crime when Hunter Biden is in jail for lying on form 4473 to illegally purchase a gun in 2018, a year which he spent higher than a kite on cocaine according to his memoir. His girlfriend/sister-in-law was so concerned about him harming himself or her that she took it out of the trunk of his car (that's some safe storage), and threw it away, loaded, into a full dumpster across the street from a high school. It went missing almost immediately, found by a guy who was dumpster diving.

Cipheron on 13/8/2022 at 21:26

Quote Posted by RippedPhreak

Absurd graph. I know Chicago alone had 3,561 shooting incidents in 2021, including 797 of them resulting in homicides. Places like Atlanta and Baltimore are similar. But the folks there have been brainwashed into Republican = Nazi KKK, so they just keep voting for Democrats who take all the money and stuff it into their own pockets instead of using it to fight crime.

Not sure where you're getting all these rural shootings, unless it's a lot of suicides, in which case people would probably find a way to kill themselves even if you banned guns. I haven't seen any stories of Cletus and Roscoe having shootouts in the cornfields, anyway.

But yeah it's pretty much all drug gangs doing this. You might as well hold all Mexicans responsible for the atrocities of the Jalisco cartel, it would be the same logic.

Google

Quote:

Here are the 10 states with the highest murder rate:

Louisiana (12.4 per 100k)
Missouri (9.8 per 100k)
Nevada (9.1 per 100k)
Maryland (9 per 100k)
Arkansas (8.6 per 100k)
Alaska (8.4 per 100k)
Alabama (8.3 per 100k)
Mississippi (8.2 per 100k)

Or this one:

(https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/homicide_mortality/homicide.htm)

This kind of check doesn't reveal a list of places where the Democrats are calling the shots.

A lot of these places have poverty and crime hotspots because they're Jim Crow states where they herded the black people after slavery ended. And the Republican-dominated state legislatures continue to gut any attempt to alleviate poverty in those cities. Keep 'em poor is their literal strategy, and if some of those cities vote Democrat to try and turn things around, then the state legislature just ramps up the laws designed to fuck everyone.

You'd think that New York State and California would have the worst crime hotspots if it was related to Democrats being in charge, but they don't.

---

An example is that recently, there was a bipartisan law to fund medical treatment for Veterans, if those Veterans were injured on duty by stuff we did to them. However, Ted Cruz and others backflipped and switched their votes to block the bill, and the reason was because the Democrats managed to pass a different unrelated bill, so blocking a bill that was gonna help Veterans was political payback. Ted Cruz and another member then 'high fived' after blocking the bill to help the veterans. His attitude was "lol, veterans, fuck 'em right" and it was a moment of mirth. He's a fucking monster and a tool.

Cruz was later forced to switch his vote after fierce criticism:
(https://www.texastribune.org/2022/08/02/ted-cruz-john-cornyn-veterans-health-care/)

And these are the people you're given cover for. Ted Cruz, a man who would fuck over crippled veterans just to try and score points in a popularity contest.

Tocky on 13/8/2022 at 21:40

Progressives are dishonest, Draxil? Who was it that put an end to the government collection of statistics on guns? Was that progressives? No. That was conservatives. Now why would they do that? Hmmmmm. And oh my ten points higher in a concentration of people vs. being spread out! Wow. And sure progressives are against enforcing gun laws! Sure they are! Why, Fox news says so so it must be true! Please. The rest of what you said was just distraction.

RippedPhreak on 13/8/2022 at 21:45

Quote:

They know who help them with education programs and health insurance. Do Republicans really think they can fool people on those things?

It's cute that you think Democrats actually help anyone with education, health care, or anything really. They pass new taxes for schools or whatever, but then oopsie, the money disappears into their friends' pockets. If Democrats actually helped anyone, then cities like Chicago that have been under Dem leadership for 90 years straight should be doing OK. They aren't.

Anyway, I don't care about Republicans because they are useless too. They serve mostly as an Emmanuel Goldstein for Dems to point and screech at. "LOOK! THIS is the enemy!" All the while the other hand is picking the poor man's pocket. But at this point neither party can or will do anything useful. Earlier in this thread I already explained to you that the USA is a failed state in a slow process of collapse, and that it's too late to save it. We're headed for some kind of split or balkanization no matter what.

Tocky on 13/8/2022 at 21:59

They DO help. They helped ME. I have Obamacare. Do you think Republicans would ever give a damn about me having insurance? Fuck no. And sure, pick the worst example city to showcase, one that has been crime ridden since the twenties and not just when Democrats are in control.

Draxil on 13/8/2022 at 22:01

Quote Posted by Tocky

I call it dishonesty when you cherry pick one graph from a 20 year old study that used one year of data, more than a quarter of a century old, from one state, collected by an internal medicine physician, without providing links or context and pretend that it makes some kind of grand and relevant point. Yes. I also think it's impossible to find common ground with someone who uses that sort of tactic.

I'm quite happy with the state of gun ownership in this country. I just completed my course to get a CCHL and submitted the paperwork, and expect to have the license soon. I have multiple high powered rifle and more high capacity magazines with zero paper trail, and no worries that there are going to be federal agents knocking at my door to get them anytime soon. I enjoy shooting on a regular basis, am teaching my children to safely handle firearms, and am more amused anything at the wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth. Progressives are on the losing side of the gun argument. For better or worse, they're here, they outnumber people in this country, and there's no feasible way of changing that. Gunpowder is part of the American DNA.

RippedPhreak on 13/8/2022 at 22:22

All Obamacare does is outlaw cheap health insurance plans for younger, healthier people. It forces everyone to get more expensive plans that cover EVERYTHING, even things you don't want.

Not really surprising since the bill was written by the insurance corporations. But anyway, not really relevant to the gun topic.

Tocky on 13/8/2022 at 22:25

Google bar graphs on it and not a lot pops up. You get plenty of articles but Republicans never read anything. I had to go with what I could find. Even hitting Images didn't help. But thanks for calling me dishonest. From you that is an honor. I've come to understand the way you argue.

I fully understand the way this country was settled. I fully understand hunting. I grew up doing it. What I don't fully understand is the fear being pumped into conservatives just to sell guns. Why fall for it? Talk about gnashing of teeth. What concerns me most is when conservatives don't react to ACTUAL things they should fear like the number of mass shootings even of school kids with anything but thoughts and prayers and MORE GUNS.

RippedPhreak on 13/8/2022 at 22:28

Someone else shoots kids, and I have to turn in my guns? Doesn't make sense. Some other guy commits rape, are you going to cut your dick off?