Pyrian on 28/4/2018 at 20:32
It's interesting that such a weak case study is such a cause. Public health care: Not helping thoroughly-doomed already-brain-dead kids! And that's why we can't have public funds for helping poor children that absolutely do need and would benefit from treatment they cannot afford! Really? Is that the best y'all can do?
Renzatic on 28/4/2018 at 20:37
Quote Posted by jkcerda
Send nudes back
Where's my 5 bucks? :mad:
Draxil on 28/4/2018 at 20:49
Quote Posted by Pyrian
It's interesting that such a weak case study is such a cause. Public health care: Not helping thoroughly-doomed already-brain-dead kids! And
that's why we can't have public funds for helping poor children that absolutely
do need and
would benefit from treatment they cannot afford! Really? Is that the best y'all can do?
To be clear, I don't see this as a public health care debate. I see it as a government authority debate. If the NHS had said 'we have a limited budget, and all of our experts agree that Alfie is going to have a short life. We're sorry, but we're pulling the plug." that would be one thing. But they then denied his parents their right to seek a second (or third) opinion and seek treatment elsewhere--even when the taxpayer wasn't on the hook for anything. That's what I find disturbing and disgusting. Well, that and the sanctimonious "we are only concerned with the best interests of the child" shtick.
jkcerda on 28/4/2018 at 20:49
Quote Posted by Renzatic
Where's my 5 bucks? :mad:
PayPal you already
If you had a gun you could demand payment:p
Draxil. Great post
jkcerda on 28/4/2018 at 20:54
The way it looks.
Britain celebrates birth of royal and executed son of commoner
Renzatic on 28/4/2018 at 21:02
Quote Posted by Draxil
To be clear, I don't see this as a public health care debate. I see it as a government authority debate. If the NHS had said 'we have a limited budget, and all of our experts agree that Alfie is going to have a short life. We're sorry, but we're pulling the plug." that would be one thing. But they then denied his parents their right to seek a second (or third) opinion and seek treatment elsewhere--even when the taxpayer wasn't on the hook for anything. That's what I find disturbing and disgusting. Well, that and the sanctimonious "we are only concerned with the best interests of the child" shtick.
And you're grossly misrepresenting the reality of the situation. Pulling the plug on Alfie wasn't due to limited budget, nor did the NHS deny the parents access to a 2nd opinion. The hospital itself sought multiple opinions on the matter from various widespread sources, each one telling them what they already knew: that there's nothing that can be done, and it's only a matter of time before the child dies. The only thing the Italian hospital offered was the potential for a few extra days or weeks of life. All second opinions stated the same thing. There was no promise of a cure. No promise of a more comfortable death. Only a delay of the inevitable.
jkcerda on 28/4/2018 at 21:09
Read a draxils list again. There is an “”if” there
Renzatic on 28/4/2018 at 21:31
Somehow I missed that. Though the rest still applies. The NHS got a 2nd, 3rd, and a 4th opinion, and the only thing seeking treatment elsewhere would've brought were a jaunty fun plane ride, and a few extra days of lingering before death. There was no hope. No one was offering any hope. No one was denied hope. The NHS didn't suddenly decide to end this kid's life on a random whim, didn't do a thing to shoot down the child's chances for recovery elsewhere, and the courts didn't side with the hospital out of a sense of authoritative solidarity.
Like I said, they never denied the child anything. This has nothing to do with Alfie, everything to do with his parents. And I'm not gonna say they're the bad guys here, because they merely did what anyone in their situation would do. It's just...
...yeah, it's a shitty thing that it had to happen at all.
Starker on 28/4/2018 at 21:52
It's funny, I did grew up under totalitarian rule, and that's why it baffles me how people are so blind to recognise it when it's happening right under their noses and so eager to cry wolf when there isn't even a shadow of it. The child abuse law that allows the UK government to intervene in cases like this was put in place by a democratically elected parliament. It's not just the government arbitrarily going, "we'll kill this one child who's already dying." And the courts ruling against the parents is not the government gone mad with power either, it's the courts interpreting law as they should.
Trance on 28/4/2018 at 22:00
You have the proper frame of reference. They don't.
