catbarf on 29/3/2018 at 15:02
Every WW2-era machine gun currently in the hands of American collectors and recreational shooters is there because some GI, not a 'gangster', smuggled it back and registered it during one of the NFA amnesties. All the C&R-eligible semi-automatic rifles on the market exist because some private citizen wanted a weapon with greater fire rate than a bolt-action hunting rifle, and judging by the number still on the market they weren't some fringe minority. The US market is chock-full of military surplus imported from the 50s through the 80s, stuff that was popular until ultimately Reagan heavily restricted it. High-caliber handguns, things with no practical purpose that we call 'range toys', date well back into this supposed era of somber responsibility. And films have been driving the purchase of useless firearms for entertainment ever since the Western boom in the 50s and 60s led the entire firearms market to churn out replicas of guns showing up in John Wayne films.
This idea that American gun culture was only about responsible hunting is clearly false, and 'men had weapons from war but didn't play with them' is vacuous fluff. Americans have always owned purely recreational firearms and shot them purely for fun. Those elements of gun culture have always been around; if they seem more prominent now it's more likely due to the diminishing of hunting in popularity, the rise of media that spotlights the most extreme elements, and the vocal backlash to an increasingly politicized issue of gun ownership.
Tocky on 29/3/2018 at 15:35
Before the Reagon era the AR 15, Ak47, and SKS and large mags were very uncommon. When folks did plink at cans or targets it was to hone skills. Don't give that vacuous bullshit. I was there. The number of machine guns per capita was almost nil. Very few were "smuggled home". Even those who won the silver star didn't carry them home. Mostly it was the idiots. Those who had to use them often became sick of what they could do. They had seen it up close.
Draxil on 29/3/2018 at 21:56
Quote Posted by Tocky
Before the Reagon era the AR 15, Ak47, and SKS and large mags were very uncommon. When folks did plink at cans or targets it was to hone skills. Don't give that vacuous bullshit. I was there. The number of machine guns per capita was almost nil. Very few were "smuggled home". Even those who won the silver star didn't carry them home. Mostly it was the idiots. Those who had to use them often became sick of what they could do. They had seen it up close.
The number of machine guns per capita is almost nil now. It's surely less now than back in the 1970's, because the number of people has grown and the number of machine guns has shrunk.
(
http://www.guns.com/2016/07/19/take-a-trip-back-in-time-through-the-gun-ads-of-the-good-ol-days-18-photos/) Here's a snapshot of the "good ol' days of responsible gun ownership" when men were men and didn't like noisy toys. Included is a 1958 ad for a Nazi 20mm semi-automatic anti-tank gun that "hurls 1/3 lb armor piercing shells up to 4 miles", and will "cleanly penetrate 2 inches of the finest steel plate armor"--only $189.50, send checks to Los Angeles, CA. Or a 1964 ad for for a Colt AR-15 sporter, only $189.50. Or a 1960 ad for a new M1 Carbine--$79.95, spare 30 rd magazines only $2.95 each. Your limited experience in the 1970's, in your small corner of the country, doesn't make you an historian or give you more credibility on the subject of gun rights, gun culture, gun history, or gun use.
Tocky on 30/3/2018 at 00:51
There were always a few nuts. Today the percentage has grown enormously. Gun nuts playing with guns like toys is much more prevalent today. That's just a fact. Exceptions are not the rule. Those guns I listed and the huge mags were just about as prevalent as the machine guns then which is a very very low number. Now all the little boys have them.
And your link? Thanks for that. There are no huge mags in it. THAT is what I've been saying. Those are only good for playing with or shooting up a school. Thanks for that too. That falls dead on the shoulders of the ones who have made them popular today.
catbarf on 30/3/2018 at 02:41
Quote Posted by Tocky
And your link? Thanks for that. There are no huge mags in it. THAT is what I've been saying.
Anything over ten rounds, right? So in that link, the two AR-15s with 20rd magazines, the FNC with a 30rd magazine, the M1 Carbine with a 15rd magazine, or the 'spare 30 rd magazines only $2.95 each' he specifically mentioned in his post?
Sure, shooting has always been about respectfully honing skills. Never about (
https://s-i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/271136/slide_271136_1908242_free.jpg) shooting just for fun, or (
https://www.fieldandstream.com/g00/3_c-8yyy.hkgnfcpfuvtgco.eqo_/c-8OQTGRJGWU46x24jvvrux3ax2fx2fyyy.hkgnfcpfuvtgco.eqox2fukvgux2fhkgnfcpfuvtgco.eqox2fhkngux2fuvangux2f877_3z_x2frwdnkex2fkorqtvx2f4236x2fkorqtvx2fKocigx2f4232x2frjqvqx2f45x2fiwpcf12.lrix3fkvqmx3dtVisfY7Qx26k32e.octmx3dkocig_$/$/$/$/$/$/$/$/$/$/$/$/$/$/$) owning guns you've seen in movies, or (
https://s-i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/271136/slide_271136_1908240_free.jpg) living out masculine fantasies, or (
http://www.sturmgewehr.com/bhinton/OldGunAds/G43.jpg) collecting weapons of war (definitely (
http://www.sturmgewehr.com/bhinton/OldGunAds/SVT40Tokarev_ARDec1960.JPG) not high-power semiautomatic rifles, and (
http://s23.postimg.org/9llhpohor/machinegun_ads_1960s.jpg) certainly not actual submachine guns), or (
http://www.sturmgewehr.com/bhinton/OldGunAds/25mmHotchkiss.jpg) buying ridiculous stuff because you can, or (
http://www.bavarianm1carbines.com/041965a.gif) owning the weapon you were issued in the military. Just a 'few nuts', who apparently accounted for so many sales that millions upon millions of the things are still in circulation, and
just so happened to dramatically increase in number right as politics put their hobby in the spotlight.
Renzatic on 30/3/2018 at 02:41
Quote Posted by Tocky
Gun nuts playing with guns like toys is much more prevalent today.
This, at least, I can agree with you on. Back in the day, you had so many people who had guns, liked guns, and shot guns. They were hunters. They were ex-military. They were collectors. They were hobbyists. Guns were about as prevalent back then as they are today. Maybe slightly moreso. Though even with all these various people owning and using their various weapons, they didn't have anything analogous to what we now call Gun Culture.
Like everything these days, it's a political movement. Like most political movements these days, it's got probably a few too many reactionary dipsticks among its ranks for comfort.
If there's any reason why you believe guns weren't quite as widespread back in the day as they are today, it's probably because you didn't have quite so many people waving them in your face, screaming YOU CAN'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO!
catbarf on 30/3/2018 at 03:08
I think it goes without question that there are fewer hunters and casual gun owners as a proportion of the general population, which makes the diehards a greater proportion of gun owners by default.
Tocky on 30/3/2018 at 03:56
The page was a lot longer than I thought it was. I only thought I had scrolled down all the way. I see the gun industry has been grooming the nuts for longer than I figured. Likely those adds were in things like Soldier of Fortune because they sure as hell were not in the Sears catalog. Those folks were not the normal average Joe. As I said, there has always been the fringe.
While it's true there are less hunters it's also true there are more "collectors". That's the nice way to put it I guess. You know, those folks who run out and buy more at any sign of concern from those more sane. Ah well, at least they have their freedom.
Inline Image:
https://i.imgur.com/EvZSbEN.jpgOh and no, there were as many hunting guns if not moreso but less of the sort you got out of the back of Soldier of Fortune. I still maintain there were less Soldier of Fortune types.
Renzatic on 30/3/2018 at 04:32
Quote Posted by Tocky
Oh and no, there were as many hunting guns if not moreso but less of the sort you got out of the back of Soldier of Fortune. I still maintain there were less Soldier of Fortune types.
Maybe. Though you could call even that into question, since the availability of the internet allows groups that were once considered fringe to amplify their platform, and make it public in ways that were previously impossible to do.
We don't know how these people reacted to the Brady Bill, and the federal assault rifle ban back in the early 90's, but I can tell you exactly how they're acting now.
