The God Delusion - TTLG Forums

Matthew on 25/1/2007 at 19:17

Gingerbread Man on 25/1/2007 at 19:40

Deuteronomy says you can wander around collecting up animals you find dead at the side of the road and then sell them to foreigners!

the_grip on 25/1/2007 at 19:42

That's how i made my first million.

fett on 25/1/2007 at 20:57

Quote Posted by Uranium - 235

So you attempt to point that out by being a belittling troll who has done more word-twisting then anything? What I find particularly interesting is the mention of how I "know nothing of its context". Tell me, what *IS* the context of the Bible then, seeing as how Christians are divided on that question.

And you've done a wonderful job avoiding the whole Deuteronomy thing. You of all people should be familiar with such passages as the one suggesting you should stone a woman who was raped because she obviously didn't cry out loud enough. But I suppose that's another of your 'parts of the Bible we should ignore' and not 'the parts we shouldn't'.

And you're going to tell me that even though your average American considers it a chore to read through a 1,000 page book, all the Christians have read the 780,000+ word bible? If you believe that, I've got a bridge to sell you.

Er...I've asked you to clarify what exactly it is you're asking about Leviticus because I still don't understand - sorry. I guess if you think I'm endorsing the content of either Leviticus or Deuteronomy, I'm not - I'm was pointing out that pulling passages from them debate christians is pretty useless on several levels.

Also not sure what word-twisting you're talking about - examples please?

As to the context - each book has a different context - do you want me to go into all 66 here? Christians aren't divided on that - they've actually been in agreement as to the context of the books since the Council of Nicene and afterwards pretty much across denominational lines and into Catholicism. I think you might be referring to division as to the interpretation of certain passages, but universal mainstream christianity is agreed upon pretty much every major doctrine. I'm not trying to defend the christian position, I'm just letting you know - this is another thing that's constantly criticized but has no real teeth in reality.

I also didn't say you should 'ignore' parts of the bible - I said if you take them out of context (like any other written material) you can make anything sound ridiculous.

And no - all christians haven't read the bible, but if you debate one who does, the arguments should be better than the ones I've seen presented here because they're all pretty lame so far.

Epos Nix on 25/1/2007 at 21:19

Quote:

Atheists don't really need to resort to straw man logic, when facts are enough to support their position. The fact is that god is nowhere to be found but in the minds of the believers, and belief is far, far from factual knowledge.

I find it funny that people take this stance when science itself is proving how little we know about the universe we live in rather than the contrary. I mean, a huge topic lately has been that of Dark Matter, saying that the vast majority of matter within our universe is stuff we can't sense or detect in any fashion whatsoever save perhaps its effect on gravity. So if the majority of matter is stuff we can't see or interact with, doesn't that mean that the tiny percent of stuff we can see is the exception, not the rule? What if our version of matter (ie. the stuff that isn't Dark Matter) is just the leftover shit from the "real" universe we can't see? If God exists and we can't seem to find him here, I think its possibly because he's somewhere in that 90% of other stuff that doesn't interact with our version of matter in any way...

ilweran on 25/1/2007 at 22:40

Quote Posted by the_grip

That's just it - this is a push for legislation against the conscience of these Catholic folks.

They're not just arguing against this law because they might have to let gays adopt- or share a bed in a B&B. It was even mentioned that a christian might be forced to, for example, develop a website promoting gay rights.

I don't see them campaigning against the laws protecting against religious discrimination, yet surely they should be unhappy if I wanted a website promoting Wicca or wanted to book a double room to share with my boyfriend. They're not being consistant.

Personally I think if they're willing to use children to emotionally blackmail the government to give into their demands the Catholic adoption agencies should be closed.

Jadon on 25/1/2007 at 22:51

Quote Posted by fett

I'd think it would be at least a minor relief to atheists for the pro-life movement to have a medical/psychological/humanitarian stance for their view, rather than a religious/moral one? It seems at the very least it would raise the debate to a place where there is some common context and vocabulary.

(http://8e.devbio.com/article.php?id=162) when does human life begin
From a developmental biology books online learning component. Does a fairly good job of explaining the history, and what are the current views of when human life begins is. Personally I pick the genetic or Embryological views than the others especially self-consciosness which basicly states that you aren't human until you can realize that your a human.

note to self: read Tooley's article

Uncia on 25/1/2007 at 23:08

Quote Posted by the_grip

The vast majority (and i mean upwards of 90%) of abortions occur strictly because a woman feels unsupported in her pregnancy.

(http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3711005.pdf)

Quote:

RESULTS:
The reasons most frequently cited were that having a child would interfere with a woman's education, work
or ability to care for dependents (74%); that she could not afford a baby now (73%); and that she did not want to be a
single mother or was having relationship problems (48%). Nearly four in 10 women said they had completed their
childbearing, and almost one-third were not ready to havea child. Fewer than 1% said their parents' or partners'
desire for them to havean abortion was the most important reason. Younger women often reported that they were
unprepared for the transition to motherhood, while older women regularly cited their responsibility to dependents.

(http://www.uhseast.com/118138.cfm)

Quote:

The most common reasons women consider abortion are:
-Birth control (contraceptive) failure. Over half of all women who have an abortion used a contraceptive method during the month they became pregnant.
-Inability to support or care for a child.
-To end an unwanted pregnancy.
-To prevent the birth of a child with birth defects or severe medical problems. Such defects are often unknown until routine second-trimester tests are done.
-Pregnancy resulting from rape or incest. Every year, about 13,000 women choose abortion after suffering rape or incest.
-Physical or mental conditions that endanger the woman's health if the pregnancy is continued.

Etc. I do believe you may have been reading biased statistics. Either that or "unsupported" has a very broad definition.

paloalto on 25/1/2007 at 23:17

Quote:

On whether being raised by same-sex parents has a detrimental effect to children? There has been quite a bit, yeah. Not that it really ought to have been necessary, but it's out there, and it proved what common sense ought to tell you - that there is no discernible difference between children raised by heterosexual couples and those raised by gay couples. This doodah from the ACLU is a decent look at the issue.

Huh.My common sense says that it does.I guess common senses are different.Which is why we need more study.An unbiased study to.The unbiased part is not referring to the study you pointed to in your thread.

Aerothorn on 26/1/2007 at 01:15

FETT HAS WON

Like, seriously folks, he's not trying to invalidate your atheistic beliefs or anything - so be nice. Being rude and insulting doesn't give your arguments more weight, it just makes you look like you don't have a leg to stand on.

I'm so forwarding this thread to all my friends. When this thing is all dead (if it ever is) I'll probably take the Fett posts and responses and paste it into some master word document:)