Mugla on 14/1/2007 at 16:20
But the conversation was about the existence of God, not the comfort it gives.
Yes, you now have the permission to comfort yourself in God.
SD on 14/1/2007 at 17:24
Quote Posted by Thirith
I can also accuse you of not reading other people's posts very well - I never said that atheism couldn't give me that level of comfort, I simply said that if faith is working out for me (and so far it is), what reason would I have to change to something that may or may not give me the level of comfort I am seeking?
Isn't it better to be comfortable and right than comfortable and wrong? And you definitely
implied that you could get something from faith that you couldn't get anywhere else, otherwise why have faith at all?
Quote:
Also, even if I had said that atheism can't comfort me, I'm sure that if you're honest you'd have to admit it's more arrogant to assume things about others than about oneself.
It would help my assumptions immensely if you weren't about as clear as mud in the things you write. You haven't explained what exactly it is that faith gives you, and how believing that God exists helps you.
In any case, it's rather getting off the central point. You finding comfort in God does nothing to make his existence more likely, which is really all I'm concerned with.
Thirith on 14/1/2007 at 17:59
Quote Posted by Strontium Dog
Isn't it better to be comfortable and right than comfortable and wrong? And you definitely
implied that you could get something from faith that you couldn't get anywhere else, otherwise why have faith at all?
It would help my assumptions immensely if you weren't about as clear as mud in the things you write. You haven't explained what exactly it is that faith gives you, and how believing that God exists helps you.
Quote Posted by Thirith
Well, this is going to be based purely on personal experience, but I truly believe that since I've started to consider belief in God a viable option, I've become a more balanced, happier person. I am less aggressive, less vindictive, more willing to see other people's side in an argument. I feel less superior to people. Certainly this is self-assessment and, as such, problematic, but it's the best I can do in this case. However, whether it is based on delusion or not, I do know that before I started down the road towards faith, I was clinically depressed and on medication. I still get depression, but I have learnt to cope without medication. It's not proof, but at the very least it's one item of evidence that something has changed in me.
If that isn't clear, then I'm sorry - but to be quite honest, I think it is clear. And as far as your second point is concerned, I think what I implied was that before I found whatever faith I have now, I lacked the things I mention above. Personally, I find it rather rational to accept that there is value in something if I get something positive out of it; and perhaps I'm odd in this, but if I find a way of dealing with problems that works for me, I'm not going to put that much energy or effort into jettisoning this way of dealing with things and looking for another one. I will, however, quite gladly examine what this way of dealing is and whether I can find any negative elements in it that would make it more sensible to chuck it.
Quote:
In any case, it's rather getting off the central point. You finding comfort in God does nothing to make his existence more likely, which is really all I'm concerned with.
Nope, it isn't, or at least not only. You want religious people to be
cured of their delusional belief in God; you say that it's always better for people
not to believe in God than to believe in God. I challenged your points by saying that I personally see lots of good things coming out of my belief, whether it's founded in a fiction or not.
SD on 14/1/2007 at 18:22
Quote Posted by Thirith
Nope, it isn't, or at least not only. You want religious people to be
cured of their delusional belief in God; you say that it's always better for people
not to believe in God than to believe in God. I challenged your points by saying that I personally see lots of good things coming out of my belief, whether it's founded in a fiction or not.
You see, I just don't believe that the benefit you're getting is coming directly out of your faith, although I freely admit it would be hard to prove otherwise. I don't see why the sudden acceptance that there exists a superhuman, supernatural intelligence who deliberately designed and created the universe and everything in it should give you such comfort. Perhaps it's because God is so alien to me (I have never been a believer, my parents raised me without that sort of baggage, for which I am eternally thankful).
I'm pleased that you're doing better now, anyway, however you achieved it.
Aerothorn on 14/1/2007 at 18:27
Maybe God doesn't believe in either of you!
Martlet on 14/1/2007 at 18:28
Quote Posted by fett
Even their concept of redemption was far away from surrounding cultures, based not on sacrifice (though it was a feature) but rather on the grace of the diety, God reaching out to man (as opposed to man trying to find God), a God willing, yet unable to fully reveal himself due to his 'otherness' etc.
I'm sort of ignorant on these things but is that why original sin exsists, and that you reach salvation not through being better than other people but through the grace of god?
Raven on 14/1/2007 at 18:33
sorry I skipped over pages 3 and 4 of max posts to post....
@fett - wow, that post about your failing in faith (or cure as some would say) due to not being able to find god in your fellow man is pretty gut wrenching... I feel sorry for you, it sounds like something really hurtful/crappy happened personally (or you watched the news and saw the state that the world is in on the grand scheme of things).
I suppose when faced with horrors of this present existence the mantras of "My kingdom is not of this world" and "Happy are you that can see and believe, but what about those that don't have that luxury?" (parphrasing) come into play.
It hurts when we let each other down - it hurts even more when those who should know better do too - but they will because while we can see Jesus in each other, no human is god or can replace god in one's life (and so we have a divorce rate that is through the roof). If your protest to faith is more simple the lack of biblical miracles taking place today - (and I know the atheists will love this one) you have the spread of Christendom, *ahem* Mass,*ahem* person prayer, bleeding statues... actually you (the forum in general) have to really read about the Turin Shroud... that is a bit freaky when all the "evidence" is presented... anyway...
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(sorry for that religious talk - i will return and continue to read the rest of the thread... I wanna see if STD claws someone's face off... currently people seem to be backing him into a corner.... and we all know that guy can strike when under attack)
SD on 14/1/2007 at 18:49
Quote Posted by Raven
I wanna see if STD claws someone's face off... currently people seem to be backing him into a corner....
You must be reading a different thread to me. In fact, after this, and Dr Sneak's little (
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1546648#post1546648) proclamation, I can see it's not only God that you religious guys delude yourselves about ;).
Martlet on 14/1/2007 at 18:55
lol. bang on the mark there.
Raven on 14/1/2007 at 18:57
sorry, I am only skimming really and so could have easily picked up a wrong vibe.
I am not really entering this thread due to the smug notion that I have everything figured out and am completely at one with the universe... it is just that I have a few personal issues to work out - like why am I not a church just now when I know I should be, and why am I such a lazy git in life in general.... but as I said these are my own issues. I think I am going through personal discovery the wrong way round... I started with the big questions and but now need answers to the little questions (actually I have the answers - I just need to be less lazy)
