ProjectX on 10/1/2006 at 07:43
I can help with a bit of mapping architecture and in-editor scripting.
Still gotta release my Contest 6 map!
Crispy on 10/1/2006 at 08:04
Quote Posted by New Horizon
Perhaps you're misunderstanding how it actually works.
Possibly. I guess I'll reserve further comment until I've actually seen it in action. :cheeky:
str8g8 on 10/1/2006 at 08:07
Have to say I'm none too keen on the general idea of the first glyph and the whole cyclical thing. It seems a cheap trick to bring the Keepers back, and it means that the first 3 games were pointless. Personally I absolutely hate it when sequals change the rules. I think we either need to explore other aspects of the City and speculate what would happen without the omniscient machinations of the Keepers, Or else, like I said on the Writeboard, do a Chronicles of Garrett type thing set before the Dark Project.
A new campaign shouldn't just be a rehash of the first 3 games, it's a chance to expand the Thief universe a little, therefore I say we avoid Pagans, Hammers and Keepers for the meat of the story.
Also, doesn't the Keeper sign on the back of Garrett's hand at the end of T3 mean that he's joined the Keepers? He can't surely keep on with this reluctant "I hate those Keepers..." thing ... I felt the emotional climax of T3 was Garrett returning to the fold, so to speak. We shouldn't be trying to reset the clock, like the end of each episode of a sitcom.
What form will the keepers take without the glyphs? What new powers will emerge to fill the vacuum? Would Garrett's powers as a thief be diminished without the "Keeper magic" (possibly a way of making the game tougher) ... these are interesting questions that have opened up!
Just my thoughts.
Crispy on 10/1/2006 at 08:36
You make some good points. I still like the cycle idea as a concept, but perhaps we should reconsider the scope of this project. We don't need to create a Thief 4 right off the bat, after all.
Of course, that takes us right back to square 1 with ideas. :p At this rate, June is looking way too optimistic.
sparhawk on 10/1/2006 at 11:49
If you create the torrentfile, you can send it my way to. I also can host it and contribute to the torrent. After all, torrents work best when distributed. I have Azureus running 24/7, even though it may not be so reachable from some areas, at least on European clients it should work well. I have no dedicated server on some big backbone, just a server on my private home connection running 24/7.
Ziemanskye on 10/1/2006 at 12:12
Okay couple of things for today:
1: Why I shouldn't be the art-director:
I don't like what I've seen of Minamalist, Realist, or T3EnhancedEd. I've been biting my tongue on those for a while, but I've said it now - and I am willing to accept the argument that this is because I'm mostly a console gamer so the lower res textures and console-esque HUD don't bother me so much. My personal main gripe with the OM art is that a lot of smeshes aren't set to a sensible origin so you have to tweak more than should be the case to get them into position.
If someone else takes AD and we use that stuff, well I guess I'll use it, but if I'm AD I'll continue to argue against it.
However, I think a lot of that is done already, so in terms of textures it's not a time issue, but I'm still wary of having a lot of new smeshes in the project and making the deadline. And I don't think anyone's got custom NPCs to work yet (my character model got mangled in the editor, so my attempt's out for now), so bang goes another thread of custom content.
2: An alternate mission:
Well, not really, but in my initial suggestion to the backpack was a "collection of properties", and I thought that could be a fun (if odd) community venture, in that we all build a small interior-only property (say a 1024x1024x1024 cube each?), then we just collect them together and string them into a mission. Though I'm probably underselling the difficulty of that last bit. :p
3: The cycle:
My big problem (of the day) with the idea is that it's a glyph at all. The Final Glyph was part of the city, and I think the First should be part of something which isn't just a glyph on a wall or a prophesy or something - something the Sentients know about, so might have alluded to so whoever possess them (yes, that could include private collectors) might have started to look for this "Magical Source". Basically, not actually something you can steal, but which Garrett has to discover or the cycle doesn't start again and gylph magic kind of dies out. Naturally once people realise Garrett is the only one who can "find" it, everyone who knows about it is going to be after him one way or another.
Still, we don't have many other ideas floating in public at the moment, so it's our most likely campaign unless someone comes up with something different.
Crispy on 10/1/2006 at 12:48
Also lots of good points. I too am not entirely convinced about the merits of those 3 projects you mentioned - I think they're all good ideas but have been taken too far in some aspects. And I'm afraid I simply don't see the need for the Realist mod. I don't mean to discourage anyone though (which is why I haven't pushed the point); the people working on those projects are doing great work, even if I don't like all of it.
Quote Posted by Ziemanskye
2: An alternate mission:
Well, not really, but in my initial suggestion to the backpack was a "collection of properties", and I thought that could be a fun (if odd) community venture, in that we all build a small interior-only property (say a 1024x1024x1024 cube each?), then we just collect them together and string them into a mission. Though I'm probably underselling the difficulty of that last bit. :p
That would be fun! It wouldn't be particularly coherent, and consistency of art direction and mission ambience would be all over the place... but it would be entertaining to make.
OrbWeaver on 10/1/2006 at 13:00
Quote Posted by Crispy
Also lots of good points. I too am not entirely convinced about the merits of those 3 projects you mentioned - I think they're all good ideas but have been taken too far in some aspects. And I'm afraid I simply don't see the need for the Realist mod.
There isn't a
need as such for any mods, it's just some people like to improve the quality of their gameplay experience beyond the console-quality default T3.
STiFU on 10/1/2006 at 13:14
Crispy don't worry about the ineventory keys! They are really cool. Believe me. I have them in my FM too. When you pick a key up, you see its name. "Tavern Key" for example. I named them because i think it would suck to check all keys you have.
Quote Posted by ascottk
Those of us not in C7 could get a start on things.
Nope! Still working on my FM which will still take some time. And we still need some planing! If we don't have a plot to work on and everybody is satisfied with, we can't start building anything.
But in general we haven't said yet, that we will use realist mod or T3enhancED. We haven't seen that cool screen of realist mod yet, because the normalmaps were just not bumpy enough in some way and t3enhancED comes with the old HUD, which is really unnecessary. I think it should be possible to decide whether you want to use it or not. (Could you make up a custom installer for that like in John P's texture pack) I would definitely like to use t3enhancED, because all the other features are really great in my oppinion and i would have scripted them on my own as well, but i can't decide that.
but we are still open for any suggestinons concerning the plot so just post something to the blackpack and we'll see what turns out of it!
str8g8 on 10/1/2006 at 14:22
Here is an alternative story for a more modest 3 mission campaign:
The Cabal
Background
We find Garrett several years on, a full member of the Keepers, at a time of flux for the City. The Baron has returned from the long war with Blackbrook and is seeking to re-establish authority in the City. A new City Watch, their ranks swelled with battle-hardened soldiers are stamping down on Pagans and squeezing the Hammer power base. At the same time, after years of hardship from the war, business and trade are exploding. New money is flooding the city. In this new era of affluence a new Overwarden has taken control of the Undermarket, with several Wardens working under him. These are difficult times for the Keepers, stripped of their protective cloak of secrecy they are looked on with suspicion and fear by the other factions, and risk being drawn into their power struggles.
Mission Outline:
Mission 1: Night of the Long Knives: The Baron has sent out an edict outlawing the Keepers and imprisoning all members. The first mission sees Garrett escaping across the rooftops, hunted by the City Watch and the Baron's crack troops, with the Keeper Compound burning in the background. Garrett is finally cornered and left for dead.
Mission 2: Back from the Dead. Garrett is revived by one of only a handful of keepers to escape the pogrom, and sets out to gather information. Following rumours of a link with the new Overwarden, Mission 2 sees Garrett infiltrate his HQ (possibly an underground network, similar to the Thieve's Guild, connecting brothels, bear pits, gambling dens etc.) Here he uncovers an unholy alliance between the Overwarden and an Advisor to the Baron, a certain Lord Mercier. In return for eliminating the Keepers, the Overwarden will provide the Baron with compromising information on members of the Council and enable the Baron and his Advisor to control them.
Mission 3: Power Behind the Throne. The Baronial Estate is possibly the most heavily guarded site in the City, surely the ultimate challenge for the master thief. As a sprawling palace\fortress built over by several generations it could be split into several loading zones if necessary. The mission is simple and straightforward, Lord Mercier and the Overwarden are meeting to fulfill their plan, and Garrett is going to assassinate them. In the process Garrett also uncovers evidence of Mercier's betrayal of the Baron, which could mean salvation for the Keepers.
