massimilianogoi on 11/12/2009 at 02:34
A real connection between the artificial hand and the neural system of an italian boy. In facts, it's the first human cyborg ever.
(
http://www.italymag.co.uk/italy/health/medical-first-and-possible-breakthrough) http://www.italymag.co.uk/italy/health/medical-first-and-possible-breakthrough
Video (only in italian):
<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/kFTZ9yilFl4&hl=it_IT&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed>
demagogue on 11/12/2009 at 05:46
This may be the first cybernetic hand at this level of sophistication, but it's not the very first, I think. I saw a demonstration of this a few years ago, though that one just opened and closed a grip and wasn't as versatile as this one.
As for the tech itself, I was amazed then and I still am... To me it's endlessly cool that we can understand some brain-code well enough to actually send and receive signals that do what they're supposed to. Makes me wonder what other brain-codes we are on the verge of cracking and the imagination soars.
massimilianogoi on 11/12/2009 at 06:35
Quote Posted by demagogue
This may be the first cybernetic hand at this level of sophistication, but it's not the very first, I think. I saw a demonstration of this a few years ago, though that one just opened and closed a grip and wasn't as versatile as this one.
It has a neural connection too? I doubt..
The previous prosthetic limbs at the maximum "read" the muscular movements of the torax to move itself.
Prof. Kevin Warwick done a neural connection of himself and a computer in 1998, and I've seen some guy with an electrode stuck in the head trying to move an artificial limb at the Pittsburgh univerisity, even if I haven't seen him moving anything. But here we are talking of something more sophisticated and more refined: a direct connection from the arm nerves and a computer that deciphers the signals, then moves the artificial hand. That hand at the moment weights 2 kilograms, but there's a prototype at the labs who weights just half kilogram, approximately the same of a natural hand, and with more sensibility. Yes, because this device has also some tactile sensibility. Unbelieveble, ain't?
Vivian on 11/12/2009 at 10:29
Most sophisticated, yup, but not the first: (
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11094-woman-with-bionic-arm-regains-sense-of-touch.html). The difference between jacking it into the nerves at a separate point and a 'direct neural link' is quibbling, especially as the one you're talking about is connected to the arm itself rather than straight to the brain. Not to distract from the fact that Italian arm is fucking awesome and probably takes a lot less time to get used to. I met some people at a conference a few years ago that were working on one of the ones that connects to a nerve in your pectoral muscle - they said that after a month or so of use, if you touched the patient on the pecs they felt like you were holding their hand, even if the prosthetic wasn't attached. Cool eh?
Does this mean we are one step closer to Kieron Gillen's ideal musical form of Robocop at an Italian disco?
Koki on 11/12/2009 at 12:17
Quote Posted by demagogue
As for the tech itself, I was amazed then and I still am... To me it's endlessly cool that we can understand some brain-code well enough to actually send and receive signals that do what they're supposed to.
We do? I'm not a neurologist, but isn't this just a case of reading an electrical impulse in a nerve ending? It has nothing to do with the brain, they're not reading his brain waves, only electrical impulses being sent through his nervous system.
And that's like marveling at the fact a lightbulb starts emitting light when you connect it to a battery.
hopper on 11/12/2009 at 13:00
Why don't you go ahead and invent something new and groundbreaking of a similar order to a cybernetic limb or a lightbulb, then? It's apparently easy beans to you, and then we get to bitch about how what you invented is nothing special, since all you have to do to make it work is turn it on.
Briareos H on 11/12/2009 at 13:23
Although Koki's post was dismissive and a bit simplistic -and it would not be the first time- he is right with the fact that coding the impulse train is not what's most interesting about this feat.
And do I need to remind you how stupid and useless the "SO WHY DONT YOU JUST DO IT" argument is?
DDL on 11/12/2009 at 13:32
It's more of a case of "we can do this, and also do this with enough sophistication to interpret varying signal intensities and distributions to allow quite elegant interpretations": getting a circuit to fire off when it detects "some nerve signal" is a piece of piss, but it's also very very crude. Something like "the hand clenches when you tense your muscle, and unclenches when you tense it again". Workable, but crude.
We're now getting to the point where sending complex signals to nerve endings can be interpreted in a complex fashion, and (even better) retransmitted back up as tactile feedback. Factor in the fact that the brain is enormously plastic, and you get a situation where the lost input from the 'missing limb' is effectively remapped onto the area of the brain responsible for the remaining stump (or where ever they stick the 'trodes), such that you actually start acting entirely as if the artificial hand IS your hand. You don't need to hook up the "hand" part of your brain, you just need to create the association between perceived hand motion and certain brain actions, and it does the rest for you.
So combination of awesome tech + brainz am clevar.
SubJeff on 11/12/2009 at 13:58
The scientists took their time getting around to this. Simple concept, get on with it. Eventually we'll have stump interfaces that can plug in to different hand models, different tool types and so on. Technology doesn't move fast enough for me :(
massimilianogoi on 11/12/2009 at 17:45
Here it's all different, instead! That prosthetic limb were attached to the skin, the pectoral skin received the signal, not the nerves.
Quote Posted by Vivian
they said that after a month or so of use, if you touched the patient on the pecs they felt like you were holding their hand, even if the prosthetic wasn't attached. Cool eh?
Maybe if I touch her breasts she feel like holding her hand? :laff:
Quote Posted by Vivian
Does this mean we are one step closer to Kieron Gillen's ideal musical form of Robocop at an Italian disco?
ROTFL
