Nicker on 18/8/2018 at 15:04
Quote Posted by SlyFoxx
You don't actually believe anything is "free" do you? See...socialism and communism only work until you run out of other people's money. It's amazing anybody still thinks it's a viable system.
And capitalism only works until the Robber Barons achieve monopoly and amass the majority of the wealth in stagnant pools.
The only way capitalism is viable is if it is heavily regulated, spreading the wealth and opportunity around while resisting the criminal element.
Things are not "free" under socialism, their cost is shared, as are the benefits.
Starker on 18/8/2018 at 15:05
It has worked in Scandinavia for decades. They haven't run out of other people's money yet and it doesn't seem like they're going to any time soon. And Denmark not only provides higher education for free, they pay a monthly stipend to all students.
A comparison the US and Denmark, courtesy of Fox News: (
https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/1029832098603888641?s=19)
The assumption that you'll eventually run out of other people's money is based on the premise that there is a finite amount of money to go around and once it is spent it's all gone and there's nothing left. The real world, of course, doesn't work this way. People continue to produce more money, and they can do that without any problems when they are getting paid a decent living wage in a society where people are healthy and well educated.
Pyrian on 18/8/2018 at 17:44
Meanwhile, capitalism runs out of other people's money and needs an infusion of "socialist" cash about every 10-20 years.
Purgator on 18/8/2018 at 19:20
The Scandinavian (Nordic Model) countries aren't socialist. They still operate within a capitalist economy framework.
'I know that some people in the US associate the Nordic model with some sort of socialism. Therefore I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy.'
Danish Prime Minister.
Venezuela, however, is a true socialist economy and they have run out of money.
Renzatic on 18/8/2018 at 19:26
Quote Posted by Purgator
The Scandinavian (Nordic Model) countries aren't socialist. They still operate within a capitalist economy framework.
They work under what should be commonly called the welfare state and/or social democracy model. The problem is that at some point, some idiot decided to call it socialism cuz, comeon, it's all social stuff, yall.
...damn the connotations and associations!
Here in the states, I'm waiting for the day when some democrat candidate decides to propose a final solution to our healthcare problem.
Pyrian on 18/8/2018 at 19:35
Quote Posted by Purgator
The Scandinavian (Nordic Model) countries aren't socialist. ... Venezuela, however, is a true socialist economy...
Ah, semantic games. For my money, Venezuela is a corrupt oil state, economically sort of the Middle East of South America.
Quote:
Neoliberal: Actually the Nordic states are extremely capitalist aside from their generous welfare states
Me: Cool can we also become extremely capitalist with a very generous welfare state or whatever?
Neoliberal: That's socialism, which has failed every time it has been tried
(
https://twitter.com/neoliberal_dad/status/1029886389142335488)
Purgator on 18/8/2018 at 19:59
In Scandinavian countries the means of production remains largely with private individuals not the government nor the community (not Socialism). Yes they have great welfare/healthcare, paid for through heavy taxation, from a free market.
The Socialist Venezuelan government took control of the means of production for the workers (Socialism). They're dying on their arse, like every Socialist regime before it. They've run out of money.
heywood on 18/8/2018 at 21:15
I think the FAQ offers lame excuses.
If you can't tell me what the center value of each axis means or what it's based on, how can I conclude anything from my data point? If I can't see the statistical distribution of responses, how can I tell where I ended up relative to the overall population? If you didn't ask me about party affiliation or political philosophy as part of the survey, how can I tell where I am relative to my voting group or ideological peers?
There have been many small informal surveys of Political Compass results over the years and the median always seems to be below center on the A-L axis and usually a little left of center on the L-R axis. Google it. The PACE people might dismiss these surveys as being biased by self-selection of the sample, but nobody can really know when they refuse to publish statistics. And if they wanted to, they could control for sample bias by including additional questions, but they don't.
Anyway, at a minimum the Political Compass offers a way for individuals to compare their results relative to each other e.g. other TTLG respondents. My bigger gripe is how they rate candidates for office. You can't use a questionnaire and formula to rate all your survey respondents and then place candidates on the same grid based on a secret and subjective evaluation, trying to guess who you think they really are, ignoring their statements and public record in the process. That's shenanigans.
If you think I'm being too critical, I'll repeat my challenge. First, find a set of answers that give you a result where they've placed Obama and/or Macron. Then try to reconcile those answers with their record in office. Bonus points if you can tell me how Macron and Ron Paul rate the same, or Obama and Thatcher, or how the Labour Party goes from being solidly Authoritarian-Right to Libertarian-Left in a span of 2 years.
Aja on 18/8/2018 at 21:17
If someone from the states could explain to me how it isn't *entirely fucked up* that it's becoming increasingly common for people to start GoFundMe campaigns to pay to treat their life-threatening medical conditions, I'd appreciate it. Wouldn't not having to worry about that be worth the extra taxation? As someone currently paying those taxes, I can answer unequivocally: yes.
