Starker on 17/8/2018 at 12:42
Yeah, no big surprise there:
Inline Image:
https://www.politicalcompass.org/chart?ec=-2.0&soc=-7.03As for censorship, not every group deserves a platform equal to all others. For example, certain far-right ideas are an existential threat to large groups of people. Also known as the paradox of tolerance.
SlyFoxx on 17/8/2018 at 12:47
Folks at the extreme ends of the political spectrum tend to be ruled by strong emotion. Reason gets shoved aside. In such a mental state it's difficult to near impossible to make good decisions and draw logical conclusions. Makes it's neigh impossible to have a civil conversation with somebody who has the tabled argument that "All Trump supporters are Nazis" or "All Muslims are terrorists" or "Death to the infidel." etc...
Inline Image:
https://www.politicalcompass.org/chart?ec=4.13&soc=-1.54
Minion21g on 17/8/2018 at 15:12
Okay, Cait, let's do this without actually talking about topics I don't think should or ought to be discussed.
I think the reason that discussions like this get super-sensitive and or defensive comes down to how much skin you have in the game, or at least understanding the skin others have in the game.
There's lot of talk about identity politics, but that's a new invention for people to try and discuss people's identities. And that's okay, if folks want to talk and learn more about those things, but it's worth nothing that folks feeling of self-worth are tied to their identities. As an example, maybe you're married, maybe you always planned to have kids, maybe you did all those things, what if I said that that's stupid and that you should be childless and that marriage isn't a right you deserve. Is that really a discussion?
I mean what are we we actually discussing or looking to come away with when we talk about gay marriage, gender identity, racism, or the abuse of women by men in powerful positions?
Gryzemuis on 17/8/2018 at 16:48
This is an american thread.
The situation in the US is not comparable with any European country.
I know the right in the US tries to do that, but it's bollocks.
The current situation is mainly a US problem.
Imho there are 2 huge factors:
1) Fox News. It's a fascist propaganda channel. Nothing less. The Nazis would have been proud. The things that are being said on Fox are outrageous. You just don't believe your ears. The bigotry, the lying, the aggressiveness. The slander. The pushy nature of their propaganda. The self-righteousness. Russia is not your enemy. Russia is not the country trying to undermine the US in a political way. It's Australia. (Fox is owned by Murdoch, who is an Australian). As long as Fox keeps operating as they have done over the last 20 years, the US will never return to being a normal country.
2) Christian extremists. The US was founded on sound principles. You can summary it almost as: "Freedom is our highest valued asset. Every man (and woman) is free. Every man can do whatever the fuck he wants (within reason)". That has changed. The Christians in the US are trying to convert the US in a religious state. The have partially succeeded. The vitriol and aggressiveness with what they are doing that has nothing to do with Christianity. (Although that doesn't matter). Everybody has to adhere to their extremist christian values, or else you are their enemy. As far as I'm concerned, they can all go fuck themselves.
Minion21g on 17/8/2018 at 17:12
I don't necessarily agree it's wholly an American issue, but it's definitely part of a larger picture. Just by way of example. There was the plebiscite about gay marriage in Australia which was very poorly received. In the UK, there's actions by a minority to ostracize transgender and genderqueer individuals, including actions during Pride events in London, which stand out to me.
Minion21g on 17/8/2018 at 17:17
Quote Posted by icemann
Firstly I agree with much of the above. My posting this in part was due to a Q&A segment on the ABC channel (publicly funded) over here, in which one of the people answering questions was Dr Cornel West, an American Christian (possibly a priest I'm not sure. He certainly spoke like one) in which when this question was asked by the an audience member, his response was much like you've said, that we all largely have been so focused on ourselves in today's world that we have lost the respect for others, and their points of view. So we see the world purely from our own perspectives with no thought to how things look from the others perspective. Hence the explosive reactions when a counter viewpoint is raised.
So what's the solution then? How do you or I inspire this level of compassion and respect in others which drives healthy debate ? Part of me feels that some of what happens today is maliciously intentional (i.e. trolling). Is it really something we can regulate/encourage on a societal level?
Quote Posted by icemann
I did a check and there is no video up besides the full length 1 hour Q&A episode which I can provide a link to if there is interest. The guys an excellent talker. Apparently he got in trouble during that segment for calling Trump a gangster, which made news over in the US. I'd not heard mention of it here.
Sure, I'd love to see this.
Renzatic on 17/8/2018 at 18:07
Quote Posted by icemann
So I'm a lefty afterall. Bah.
Ha! Hippie!
Here's mine.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]2495[/ATTACH]
heywood on 17/8/2018 at 21:23
This is where I fall today:
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https://www.politicalcompass.org/chart?ec=-2.63&soc=-6.15Some of the questions are kind of absurd. And I think the test is biased on the social scale. In order to score in the upper right or upper left, you have to answer like a caricature of an evil dictator.
Worse, I think the people behind this test are using it as a political propaganda tool. Every election, they "rate" the candidates on their scale. But they don't use the questions on the test to survey the candidates. They just make shit up, usually placing candidates up and to the right of where their public positions are. Here is a case in point, US 2016 and US 2012:
Inline Image:
https://www.politicalcompass.org/images/usprimaries2016.pngInline Image:
https://www.politicalcompass.org/images/us2012.pngSo Obama is more authoritarian than Clinton and I'm to the left of Sanders? Right...
I challenge anyone to find a set of answers that place any of the candidates where this site puts them without directly contradicting their stated positions and/or actions.
Another case in point, note where Macron is:
Inline Image:
https://www.politicalcompass.org/images/france2017.pngThe above includes commentary saying Macron is a US-style libertarian and social Darwinist. Really?
They're not even consistent in assessing their own country's politics. Here's how they depict the 2015 UK election, note where Labour is:
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https://www.politicalcompass.org/images/uk2015.pngAnd now Labour in 2017:
Inline Image:
https://www.politicalcompass.org/charts/uk2017They are not transparent about how they assessed the candidates and parties. They don't publish any statistics about how people answer their test questions. And the test doesn't include questions about nationality, party affiliation, candidate support, or political philosophy that could be used to validate the questions and rating algorithm. In short, I think the "Political Compass" is a bullshit propaganda tool designed to trick people into believing they are supporting the "wrong' candidate or party.
Vae on 17/8/2018 at 21:32
Good post, heywood...The evidence is clear that this "political compass" is skewed and therefore produces corrupt results, due to either an inferior algorithm or intentional manipulation.