Nicker on 16/9/2018 at 17:28
Quote Posted by icemann
I think both far left and far right are just as bad as each other. It's just that the media seems to be on the side of the left, and thus when things happen from that side it for the most part does not make it onto TV or mentioned. And yet when it's far right it does.
It's not the extremes that are the real problem in the USA right now, it's the supposedly moderate right which is capitulating with the extremists on their end of the continuum. It's the GOP turning a blind eye to repeated and overt lies, manipulation and criminality, at the highest levels, from their own elected officials. The problem is the blind insistence from the right that they are victims when they are in fact the perpetrators.
Let me correct that - they are victims, of their own moral turpitude and torpidity.
Renzatic on 16/9/2018 at 19:01
Quote Posted by Nicker
And Republican leaders do seem soft on actual Nazis marching in the streets with torches, chanting "Jews will not replace us".
Lest we forget, there were quite a few republicans who showed themselves more than willing to stand up, and publicly denounce the actions of the alt-right during Charlottesville. Their voices ended up being drowned out by the usual din from Trump and his hangers on, most of whom happen to be the very people being denounced by their own party.
From that day, we don't remember Orrin Hatch standing up, saying that his brother didn't die fighting Hitler just so Nazis could go about unchallenged today, or Ryan's sternly milquetoast "geez guys, this isn't right." We remember Trump's "there were good people on both sides!"
Pyrian on 16/9/2018 at 19:08
Quote Posted by icemann
I think both far left and far right are just as bad as each other. It's just that the media seems to be on the side of the left, and thus when things happen from that side it for the most part does not make it onto TV or mentioned. And yet when it's far right it does.
The media reports on the twitter musings of a crazy right-wing extremist guy making the whole Republican party look bad
because he's president.Nameless Voice on 16/9/2018 at 20:48
Anyway, getting back on topic, I've now come to think that one of the reasons why the extremist views have become so popular lately is because moderate people refuse to even acknowledge that they exist.
Moderate people are looking at the alt-right and saying that they are just the normal right, which in turn is making the alt-right seem "normal" and mainstream.
There's confusion between right-wing political opinions, such as wanting less government regulation or fewer social initiatives, and alt-right beliefs of bigotry and hatred.
I don't personally agree with the right, but equating their conservative opinions with those of the alt-right is a gross disservice to the normal right.
And, once that is done, you get moderates who are actually defending the alt-right under the auspices of freedom of speech, because they see them as one end of the political spectrum, rather than anathema to the entire system.
I'd imagine that the extreme left are the same, but again, I haven't really had much experience with them personally. They certainly exist here, but don't seem to be particularly mainstream.
In any case, I'm reminded of the old adage: "all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
Starker on 16/9/2018 at 22:20
Quote Posted by icemann
I think both far left and far right are just as bad as each other. It's just that the media seems to be on the side of the left, and thus when things happen from that side it for the most part does not make it onto TV or mentioned. And yet when it's far right it does.
What about that Weinstein thing, though? He went on Tucker Carlson and testified to Congress and the students protesting the conditions at the university were almost universally eviscerated in the media and targeted and harassed by "free speech protectors". Who was shut up and who was heard here?
Quote:
(
https://psmag.com/education/the-real-free-speech-story-at-evergreen-college)
Right-wing media personalities like to present left-wing students—especially black left-wing students—as dangerous totalitarians, threatening democracy. But the truth is that students have limited power, and limited ability to make themselves heard. Right-wing media has been eager to amplify Weinstein. In contrast, students at Evergreen have struggled to get their stories out. Weinstein left Evergreen with a generous pay-off, and now has a successful Patreon and enjoys flattering coverage in the New York Times. Students on campus, meanwhile, lost anti-racist programming, and faced far right harassment, without any tangible recompense.
Despite threats and administrative hostility, these students refused to let the Day of Absence die. Still, that shouldn't obscure the way that Carlson, Weinstein, and others misrepresented the nature of the event, encouraged harassment, and stirred up protest in a nearly successful effort to suppress anti-racism on campus. That seems a whole lot like a curtailment of free speech—unless, of course, you have convinced yourself that students don't have anything to say.
Nicker on 16/9/2018 at 23:12
Quote Posted by Nameless Voice
There's confusion between right-wing political opinions, such as wanting less government regulation or fewer social initiatives, and alt-right beliefs of bigotry and hatred.
There's confusion within right-wing political opinion since less regulation usually means
less regulation of the shit I want to do and more regulation of the shit people I don't like want to do. But maybe that's not so much confusion as obfuscation.
Purgator on 17/9/2018 at 10:12
You have only to look at the sad, protracted history of Northern Ireland to see that dialogue is infinitely more desirable than tribal politics. Rabid ideology on both sides fanned the flames of sectarian hatred there for decades. Growing up in Southern Ireland it often felt as if the events that engulfed N.I would consume the whole island.
Few families were untouched by this horror, recruitment for the IRA was rife in my home town. Families fled from the North to settle in the South with tales of terror and intimidation. It was a black pit of resentment and tit for tat killings, unspeakable acts of violence meted out with patriotic fervour on both sides of the divide. Both felt justified, as the ideologically possessed often feel justified when they put that ideology into murderous practise.
Protestant/Catholic, right and left. Get into a mindless mob and act out your resentment, your oppression, your desire for the preservation of the status quo, whatever. Just see how far that progresses.
SubJeff on 17/9/2018 at 10:15
Quote Posted by icemann
I think both far left and far right are just as bad as each other. It's just that the media seems to be on the side of the left
You're quite wrong here.
The far right believe in supremacy of a race or ethnic group, to the detriment of all others. The most extreme version of this is genocide.
The left believe in political correctness, the exact opposite of the detriment of others.
The media are "on the side" of the left because it's far more palatable and appears to have laudable aims, despite the results we're seeing now.
SubJeff on 17/9/2018 at 10:18
Dr Weinstein's experience, and that of people like Mary Spellman (former Dean of Claremont McKenna College), are just a demonstration of the idiocy we've allowed to grow.
In the UK a few years ago people used to complain about "political correctness gone mad".
Well, it's happened.
heywood on 17/9/2018 at 23:10
I don't think the left and right extremes are the same, and the genuine white supremacists on the right are currently more of a threat than revolutionary communists and syndicalists on the left. However, they don't seem to be a particularly big threat, numbers wise. How many people are showing up at their rallies, a couple dozen? The antifa aren't a big threat either. Both groups receive disproportionate attention, which makes them look more legitimate and powerful and helps their recruiting. The same thing happened with the Islamic State, where media sensationalism became their best recruiting tool.
And I still support basic human rights including freedom of speech for everyone, even white supremacists, Islamists, anarchists, and the Westboro Baptists.
On the topic of far-left/far-right equivalence, I see some broad similarities. The people on both extremes want radical change or to impose their version of utopia, they both view things simplistically and in terms of absolutes, their ideas and arguments don't hold up to critical scrutiny, and they are often more interested in action than discussion.
Political correctness was destined to produce a backlash. Regardless of whether the "correct" views are laudable, it's a system to impose groupthink. If unchecked, it's a threat to liberal democracy.
