Starker on 24/8/2018 at 21:33
Rich families may pay more, but they are also able to afford it far better. They don't have to save up 10-20 years for their children's college fund. Subsidies may help some extremely talented poor people get a higher education, but removing the steep financial barrier would ensure a more level playing field for everybody, not just the select few.
Yes, the government would have to pay for the education through taxes, but is it preferable to saddle young people with debt before they even really start their lives? Is it really better if those who go to bottom tier schools to get a "worthless degree" end up with a crippling debt as well?
Also, free tuition doesn't mean that the taxpayers have to pay for every single degree, no matter how "worthless" of "worthwhile" it is. Naturally, there is a preference for qualifications that are deemed more important for the future.
As for trade schools -- Ocasio-Cortez proposes to make them free as well. Though, I have to confess I don't quite understand what that means. Are public vocational schools in the US not free already?
Renzatic on 24/8/2018 at 22:29
Quote Posted by Starker
Are public vocational schools in the US not free already?
Depends on where you're at. More often than not, trade schools have a smallish tuition, though sometimes you'll have some city, county, or state initiative that offers free class programs for people to take.
Gray on 25/8/2018 at 00:40
Quote Posted by icemann
So how did we get to this point, and how can we fix it?
I will completely ignore the rest of this thread, because I'm tired and just want to express my opinion on this one quote. This will prove the point I'm making later.
I believe we got to this point because of social media. I'm fairly leftist compared to most people, but I've always wanted a good discussion about things, because that's how you can prove that someone is wrong. However, in my experience, good discussions seem few and far between nowadays, people tend to have an opinion, stick to that, and only read social media that supports and strengthens their already held beliefs, no matter what side they're on, politically, religiously, whatever. If you only ever encounter items that support your opinion but are slightly a bit more extreme than you, and you never see any opposing views, you're quite likely to think "Yes! THAT's what I think, finally someone said what I've always thought", thus pushing you slightly further along the direction you're already heading. And then, when you DO hear an opposing view, they now seem so alien to you that you can no longer have that conversation that would have been so beneficial to you AND THEM making you both have to think about your opinions, and probably moderate them. Hence, you find no common ground, and needless conflict ensues.
What's my point? Despite this medium of extreme mass communication we now have, where you have access to everything at all times, people tend to more and more find stuff that reinforces what they already believe, thus driving them further apart from people of opposing views, not closer. It's tribal thinking, amplified by technology. You can see examples of this everywhere. Trump. Brexit. General idiocy. If we're going to rely this heavily on technology as a society, we need to find a way that will spread unifying ideas, not dividing. Keep a dialogue, not an increasingly extremist monologue.
Either that, or just run up to a racist and kick them in the nuts. Which, granted, is a lot more rewarding, until you get arrested.
demagogue on 25/8/2018 at 00:46
We posted this within seconds of each other, but I said pretty much the same thing in tl;dr form:
Quote Posted by demagogue
The whole planet is a verified populist shithole. I blame Zuck.
Starker on 25/8/2018 at 01:00
This video has also been around for a while now:
[video=youtube;rE3j_RHkqJc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE3j_RHkqJc[/video]
Nameless Voice on 25/8/2018 at 02:19
The part where both sides of an argument spend all their time being angry at a hyperbolic idea of the other side seems especially apt.
Starker on 25/8/2018 at 09:29
And you think you're so clever and classless and free...Stumbled on this article while researching the US education system. It's quite lengthy, but I thought it's an interesting look into the rise of a new aristocracy in the US and how they are gaming the system (including education) in various ways.
Quote:
(
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/06/the-birth-of-a-new-american-aristocracy/559130/)
You see, when educated people with excellent credentials band together to advance their collective interest, it's all part of serving the public good by ensuring a high quality of service, establishing fair working conditions, and giving merit its due. That's why we do it through “associations,” and with the assistance of fellow professionals wearing white shoes. When working-class people do it—through unions—it's a violation of the sacred principles of the free market. It's thuggish and anti-modern. Imagine if workers hired consultants and “compensation committees,” consisting of their peers at other companies, to recommend how much they should be paid. The result would be—well, we know what it would be, because that's what CEOs do.
[...]
In my family, Aunt Sarah was the true believer. According to her version of reality, the family name was handed down straight from the ancient kings of Scotland. Great-great-something-grandfather William Stewart, a soldier in the Continental Army, was seated at the right hand of George Washington. And Sarah herself was somehow descended from “Pocahontas's sister.” The stories never made much sense. But that didn't stop Sarah from believing in them. My family had to be special for a reason.
The 9.9 percent are different. We don't delude ourselves about the ancient sources of our privilege. That's because, unlike Aunt Sarah and her imaginary princesses, we've convinced ourselves that we don't have any privilege at all.
Nameless Voice on 25/8/2018 at 13:08
I remember watching a TED Talk a while back where the presenter talked about how recommendation algorithms, such as the one on YouTube, keep slowly pushing you towards more and more extreme content on a topic you are interested in, specifically with the goal of keeping you on the site longer.
[video=youtube;iFTWM7HV2UI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFTWM7HV2UI[/video]
Pyrian on 25/8/2018 at 17:31
Well, this seems vaguely timely:
Renzatic on 25/8/2018 at 18:32
Quote Posted by icemann
It's just like in the Shin Megami Tensei games. Absolute law (far left) = absolute rule of law. Any breaches of said law / rules of faith = immediate harsh response. Absolute chaos (far right) = The absolute opposite, where anything goes, persecution of minorities, murder, death, mayhem. Neither is right. Best is somewhere down the middle.
That's more like absolutely authoritarianism vs. absolute libertarianism.
Like an authoritarian left would be Stalinist Communism, with its enforced atheism, no enforced social stratification (everyone is equal in the factories), and an expectation of absolute authority of the state. An authoritarian right would be like Saudi Arabia or the Taliban, all heavily theocratic, heavily enforced social roles, and absolute authority of the state and the faith.
