redface on 27/4/2017 at 16:10
Looks great, well done! An indie game in the spirit of Thief would be definitely very welcome here. Should you need a 2d artist, let me know.
There are/were such games in the making, but I think apart from The Dark Mod nothing was released.
voodoo47 on 27/4/2017 at 17:45
Quote Posted by dawnstream
It will not make sense to continue to this Project because they will shut me down in any case.
as I've said, as long as there is no money involved, and your product requires the original game to work, you should be quite safe - this is pretty much how every source port or engine clone out there operates. so make sure to slap a giant red REQUIRES A LEGAL COPY OF THE ORIGINAL GAME sticker onto everything publicly available, and you will be allright. probably.
anyway, the first thing to worry about should be whether you actually can put together a team of people capable of completing such a project with no money involved - most projects bite the the dust simply because there is too much work and too few people, not C&D letters.
Renault on 27/4/2017 at 18:50
Probably true, but I think even just what he's completed to date would be shut down if he released it publicly.
Judith on 27/4/2017 at 20:40
But that disclaimer makes no sense, as it's UE4 and it doesn't require any of the original games. Noone would fall for that. It's better to make something of your own, and I hope Dawnstream manages to do that :)
voodoo47 on 27/4/2017 at 22:10
well that's the point, the product needs to require the original game (files) to run to be considered fair use. just like ZDoom, T2X, XL Engine, EDuke32 etc. in this case, only the sound files would be required (as everything else would be recreated from scratch), so he pretty much has to make ownership of the original game a requirement one way or another (as there is no way he'd get away with redistributing the original Thief sound files).
anyway, as I was saying, his first problem will be finding (and keeping around) enough skilled people, no matter what he decides to make - don't underestimate just how much work such a project would be. even with about half a dozen of very dedicated workers, he will still be looking at years of work.
Jax64 on 28/4/2017 at 03:11
Oh my... This looks incredible! I wish you luck in whatever you decide to do with this. The legality of distributing this is obviously an issue, however.
PyroRogue on 29/4/2017 at 00:15
The simplest solution, i would think, is to go down the Dark Mod route. Instead of a reboot, a Reimagining; Different character name, location/mission names, etc. Build a world around your work; City name, district names, that kind of thing. And don't call it Thief anything. Names off the top of my head here... Rogue's Shadow, Shadow of the Rogue, Shadow Walker. I'm no writer or lawyer. Just my 2 cents.
Love what you're doing though! If you ever need a beta tester let me know :cool:
McTaffer on 29/4/2017 at 05:34
Agreed. From what you've shown you have talent, and with a team you could probably produce something really good (so long as you don't go the Thief 4 route of trying to pander to a general audience and going "LOOK AT US, WE'RE DARK AND GRITTY! DON'T YOU PEOPLE LIKE THAT? DID WE MENTION WE'RE GRITTY? AND DARK? AND WE HAVE DLC THAT WANTS TO BE MICROTRANSACTIONS WITHOUT EXPLICITLY BEING MICROTRANSACTIONS?" in everyone's faces.
poroshin on 30/4/2017 at 18:49
I agree, if this would require the original game for the sound files, it should be okay legally speaking. And for a truthful remake you would have to use the original sounds. So first you need to install your legal copy of Thief, and then this remake which will pull the sound files from it. Hopefully this comes to fruition.
Starker on 30/4/2017 at 22:42
I'm not a lawyer, but I doubt requiring the assets would make it fair use and okay legally. Even if you don't use a single asset from the game, you'd still be making use of the characters, locations, etc. And fair use applies for things like commentary, criticism, parody, etc. In any case, it would depend on the judge's decision.
Realistically, I think the only options are to either get a license or hope that Squeenix turns a blind eye, which companies sometimes do (partly because it's costly to pursue people who don't have a lot of money and partly because it instils "brand loyalty").
Edit: here's an article I found that talks a bit about this:
Quote:
(
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=26290)
Layers of Protection
Games aren't all about code. Just because you wrote your clone or fan game from scratch does not guarantee that it is legal. The intellectual property contained in a video game is truly vast. For instance the copyrights alone may include (but are by no means limited to):
Audiovisual display
Sound recordings
Voice recordings
Script
Screenplay
Background drawings
Sprite drawings
Musical compositions
Source Code
Object Code
Furthermore, you have trademark, trade dress and unfair competition claims in the original work to worry about, including:
Game name
Company name
Character names
Character appearance and clothing
The game's look and feel
Game packaging
And last but not least, you may even have some random claims out of left field by game actors/SAG members, including:
Name and likeness
Defamation
Privacy rights
If you use any of this in your “clone” game, you may draw unwanted attention and create a legal risk for yourself. The Tetris Company has relied on several of the above-mentioned rights, including "look and feel" under both trademark and copyright law, to enforce IP rights against games that closely resemble its product.
Furthermore, the risk of legal action isn't limited to clones of video game products. Creating a video game clone of board games, card games, and the like could create just as many problems. One famous example is the suit brought by Hasbro against the developers of Scrabulous, a well-known Facebook application.
As far as programming and code goes, commonplace commands are exceptions to the general rule of copyright protection. This is notable only because the most frequent argument I'll hear concerning a person's clone or fan game is that the “code is different” or that they “created the game from scratch”.
Unfortunately, the law doesn't really care, and is not on your side here if you relied on or used any of the other elements noted above. Even if you create the images, sound recordings, etc. from scratch, if those same components are clearly derived or ripped off from the original game, all your hard work may mean absolutely nothing from a legal perspective.
