fett on 7/9/2004 at 03:45
Um...I'll say it. Pretty sure that's bullshit.
Domarius on 7/9/2004 at 04:35
Really? Wow.
io organic industrialism on 7/9/2004 at 07:26
Quote Posted by Teh-Builder
And be careful not make this game darker then Doom3... hard enough to find around in doom3, but seeing how thieves love shadows and forgot their flashlight it could become a rather... dark experience.
that makes me worried a little bit. in doom 3... the shadows are so dark, it looks like it's not even rendering what is in the shadows.. i mean you can't see it at all. does this mean that anything completely dark in that engine will do the same? i.e. if you are in full shadow you won't be able to see ANYTHING and that would be bad
Renzatic on 7/9/2004 at 07:38
No, it renders what's in the shadows. Otherwise the flashlight effect wouldn't work.
The worst thing about the Doom 3 engine is that it doesn't like having more than 2 or 3 lightsources on a single surface. 1 is optimal, 2 or 3 is alright, but anything above that and performance starts to suffer. I don't see the engine being used for really bright games anytime soon...but for Thief it's perfect.
But besides that there is one really cool thing I can see getting alot of use from...lights can project images. Say you want to have a shadow of a tree whipping around in the wind on a wall across a window, all you have to do is get someone to draw a black and white animated image (or green or red or blue or even full color..doesn't matter), apply it to a light and bam...there's your spooky tree shadow. The best example of this is the flashlight, which is a portable lightsource that's projecting a lens distortion image.
But this does prove Vunk was right about one thing, some of the shadows were faked...mostly what you see from gratelights and whatnot. The best way to tell is to look at how harsh and defined the shadows are.
Scarlett on 7/9/2004 at 10:01
Quote Posted by oRGy
AI light/dark perception is handled in probably the same way as in Thief. Unless you mean how the bots light up flares in dark areas, which is just applying the vis check to them as well as on Thieves.
I'm curious as to how you ended up doing that, or how you think it was done in Dark. The obvious resolve to me would be to rely on the lightgird - which is used for the vertex lighting. What i ended up doing, with Quake III's engine (since i'd need the full source to get at the lightgrid data), was some real-time tracing from each object to the light sources. I imagine they'll need to do something like that as well with Doom III's engine, although i'm pretty sure id's already got some player visibility calculation in there... so maybe not.
Quote Posted by Fingernail
Doom 3 has Surround sound EAX 4, so one assumes it's already pretty much in place.
You do realize that EAX has nothing to do with actual sound propogation, right (it simpily handles acoustical effects)? I seriously doubt that Doom III already has any kind of actual propagation system, as it is, to be honest.
Domarius on 7/9/2004 at 10:55
Quote Posted by Scarlett
You do realize that EAX has nothing to do with actual sound propogation, right (it simpily handles acoustical effects)? I seriously doubt that Doom III already has any kind of actual propagation system, as it is, to be honest.
So true. I can't beleive I missed Fingernail's EAX & sound propagation statement (especially since it was quoted enough times).
Here's some info on what EAX 4 does;
(
http://www.soundblaster.com/resources/read.asp?articleid=89&cat=3)
Basically, Occlusion and Obstruction, to mimic the way sound SOUNDS when its coming through or around objects (not the same as propagation), and multi-reverb effects - previously, you would only hear the one reverb effect - stand in a hallway, and everything echoes like its in a hallway, stand in a bathroom, and everything echos like its in a bathroom.
Multi-reverb effects means this limitation isn't there anymore - fire a shot in a hallway, and the gunshot echoes like its in the hallway, then, the bullet hits the wall in the bathroom, and echoes like its in the bathroom (rather than in the hallway, just because you're standing in it).
AWESOME - here is a link to how EAX is used to great effect in Thief 3! (I just get excited when our favourite game gets a mention, especially a whole page :)
(
http://www.soundblaster.com/resources/read.asp?articleid=107)
Teh-Builder on 7/9/2004 at 11:08
Quote Posted by Scarlett
I'm curious as to how you ended up doing that, or how you think it was done in Dark. The obvious resolve to me would be to rely on the lightgird - which is used for the vertex lighting. What i ended up doing, with Quake III's engine (since i'd need the full source to get at the lightgrid data), was some real-time tracing from each object to the light sources. I imagine they'll need to do something like that as well with Doom III's engine, although i'm pretty sure id's already got some player visibility calculation in there... so maybe not.
t.
The unreal engine keeps track of how much light a lightsource puts onto an actor, or there was simply added a thingi to players that would detect the amount of light.
ToolFan2007 on 7/9/2004 at 11:16
No offence but the room looks pretty amateurish IMO. It's very easy to make a simple room but it will take years to make a game as good as Thievery.
Domarius on 7/9/2004 at 11:19
Well the example room is just a quick mock up to show us how easily you can start making Doom 3 "look like Thief".
True, the reality of why that window looks so good, is that it's a really pretty texture.
It's all a testament to how important texturing is in any game.
ToolFan2007 on 7/9/2004 at 12:22
Ok.
If you need any music at this stage I would delighted to help out and let you hear some of my stuff. I think it could fit into the Thief setting quite well.
