d'Spair on 9/5/2011 at 21:12
I can't agree more with ZylonBane. Pretty much sums up everything about TDM.
Renault on 9/5/2011 at 22:38
Quote Posted by demagogue
Aaanyway, the only reason it hasn't happened is that there hasn't been a fan that's taken the initiative. That's the only thing really holding it back I think. Yeah we need a Darkmod Pavlovscat circa 2006, or Komag circa 2000, or Digi circa 1998.
I'd be willing to set something up over at Southquarter - but what do people really want? Something more than just a listing of missions, I assume?
FM Reviews?
An encyclopedia of TDM canon?
An install guide?
Tutorials? (for playing, not editing)
Tips and tricks?
A guide to the strange and unusual?
?
demagogue on 10/5/2011 at 02:20
What we really need is one of those "Next Generation Taffers", an overenthusiastic ~18-22 year old fan that doesn't seem to recognize yet that blowing an entire weekend working on the tables of a site and gushing on and on about their favorite game is in any way a "bad" thing ... Something a lot of us were 10-15 years ago before we "grew up". (Lol, not intended to push any guilt trip button for those requesting "no tempting".) I actually honestly wish there could be a torch-passing moment for some new, young people to get more active, for Thief 2 and Dark Mod both. Maybe when Thief 4 rolls around we'll get some new blood that might catch the fever. (Edit: Not that oldtimers are going anywhere. I'll probably be playing FMs forever.)
But anyway, to answer that question more helpfully, FM reviews would be cool; maybe make contest pages that have links to all the contest FM entries & lists the result scores. (Komag contests were actually what originally got me to TTLG); and treatment of "unofficial" stuff if any comes along, things you wouldn't find sponsored at darkmod.com but fans would be interested. Can't think of anything, but like unofficial Enhancement Packs, or patches for features that are cool but not appropriate for being officially integrated into the mod. Right now we don't have a place that really welcomes that kind of thing, or talk about that kind of thing.
Edit: Like if you go on the Darkmod forum and say "X sucks; make it do Y". If you're talking directly to the devs it's making their life difficult because they're responsible for making the mod the best it can be, and I can almost guarantee there was a loooong internal debate over exactly X vs Y, and consensus came to X for very good reasons. And chances are they did the right thing making it X. (Or it's a situation where they'd like Y too, but don't have the ability or resources to get to it just yet.)
But if it's just outsider fans talking to each other, then they don't have that burden. They can agree "yeah, let's try Y", and make a branch patch or EP, and it's not a problem. The question of whether it's good for the mod isn't even an issue. They're not changing the base mod & aren't responsible for it, but they still feel cool for doing this fun tangent on their own. That kind of thing. That's one difference with the position of engaged fans vs. devs, where it's good to give fans their own space ... or start taking ownership of part of these forums or the Darkmod forums for that.
Fidcal on 10/5/2011 at 06:12
One thing you might include is a new features, updates section. The articles at
(
http://modetwo.net/darkmod/wiki/index.php?title=Category:What%27s_New) are necessarily a reference log but you could use those as a start and just extract the changes and improvements that would mostly interest players. Leave out some of the less interesting techy bug fixes. If you follow the links and/or search the dark mod forums to get a better idea or even from your own gameplaying experience you can then present changes in a more attractive fashion.
For instance the improvements in blackjacking or AI pathfinding improvements, etc. or the new horses, female characters, and so on. In other words convert from technospeak into salespeak.
Of course the above is a lot of work but maybe you could start a new thread or use this one to discuss with players, eg, to get a good idea what blackjacking is actually like now, and they could contribute text for you to paste up.
I'm thinking of starting a new on-going thread at (
http://forums.blackcatgames.com/) to include some of the above but I'd only be able to get it started. It would mostly rely on support of others. Well, I could spend more time on it of course if players prefer me to do that rather than produce FMs. ;)
Brian The Dog on 11/5/2011 at 10:17
I'd agree with ZB that finding the missions is a bit hard work, when it should be the main selling point (as far as the average player is concerned, at least). I've had a look at the main Dark Mod webpage, and the available missions is the second sub-tab on the Downloads (third) tab. Since most of the people will (a) want to install it, and (b) only do that if they can quickly see the missions available, I'd definitely recommend putting the Missions on the first page rather than the "News". News is important, but the average person just wants to have download the missions.
Oh, and finding the Wiki from the website is a bit of hassle, you have an FAQ tab but the Wiki is hidden away on that, and that's effectively the manual. I'd recommend making that a bit more visible.
Springheel on 11/5/2011 at 21:50
Quote:
I'd agree with ZB that finding the missions is a bit hard work
You don't have to find the missions anymore. You can preview, download and install missions directly from within the game.
Quote:
I'd recommend making that a bit more visible.
Yes, a redesign of the website is in the works, though I think the person coding it may have bailed on me.
ZylonBane on 11/5/2011 at 22:23
Quote Posted by Springheel
You don't have to find the missions anymore. You can preview, download and install missions directly from within the game.
That's cool and all, but it doesn't help draw in people who haven't installed TDM yet, or people who don't want to fire up TDM just to browse the missions.
Xorak on 11/5/2011 at 22:49
I agree that with Thief 4 coming out there's a chance to catch a whole bunch of new players. When they finish the Thief 4 campaign, some of them at least will undoubtedly want something more along the same lines. If a Dark Mod campaign is sitting there waiting for them, that could be very tempting. The campaign also creates the gameworld. That is what most players want, a single recognizable world and protagonist.
A good thing about there not being 100s of missions yet, is that in-depth reviews and screenshots and all that stuff, can still be done for them all in a month or two.
New Horizon on 12/5/2011 at 00:07
Quote Posted by Xorak
I agree that with Thief 4 coming out there's a chance to catch a whole bunch of new players. When they finish the Thief 4 campaign, some of them at least will undoubtedly want something more along the same lines. If a Dark Mod campaign is sitting there waiting for them, that could be very tempting. The campaign also creates the gameworld. That is what most players want, a single recognizable world and protagonist.
A good thing about there not being 100s of missions yet, is that in-depth reviews and screenshots and all that stuff, can still be done for them all in a month or two.
I have a feeling that any 'new' players garnered through Thief 4 will not have much interest in TDM. TDM was made for fans of T1 and T2, but I think T4 is going to be more in the vein of Deadly Shadows.
