ZylonBane on 9/5/2011 at 00:28
Quote Posted by Springheel
It's worth mentioning that even when T2X came out, there was a vocal segment of the TTLG community who were quite critical (it didn't use Garrett, it had a hammer instead of a blackjack, etc). I even recall some people who said refused to play it at all. And T2X suffered from NONE of the problems ZB listed.
The problems I listed are in no way applicable to T2X. T2X was a campaign set in the Thief universe. TDM is a toolset.
Look, the whole point of creating TDM was to build a community around it. To build a community, it needs to aggressively market itself to both players and content creators. These two audiences are very different, and thus must be courted differently. The TDM site seems to be doing a pretty good job of appealing to mission authors, so what's needed now is a push on marketing to players. A solid up-front campaign would be the best foundation of any such effort.
Another good movie, IMHO, would be to set up a TDM sister site dedicated to nothing but cataloging and featuring the missions. "The Dark Missions", or something like that. This would be the destination and primary community portal for FM players, not developers. Not so much as a mention of engine updates. Just a list of all the missions, screenshots, reviews, user ratings, etc.
sNeaksieGarrett on 9/5/2011 at 03:11
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
Unfortunately, that's not good enough. When I play Thief FMs, it's in large part to immerse myself once again in the world that Looking Glass did such an outstanding job of establishing in the OMs. I believe I'm not alone in this. TDM missions, on the other hand, rely on building up the game world in the player's head in a disjointed, piecemeal manner that's probably not even internally consistent. Saying "Go read the wiki" is absolutely the wrong answer. So that's one problem.
...
Well holy shit, ZB actually posts something decent.:o
That seperate site idea is actually a really good idea, btw. Although, isn't there already something similar to this? (A forum area for TDM missions for example.)
Boxsmith on 9/5/2011 at 04:56
I'd love to have more and better FMs to play. I think ZylonBane definitely has the right idea -- if you guys follow his advice, TDM will certainly gain more attention, and consequently, support.
I eagerly await the day I get to play a Dark Mod FM as polished and innovative as CoSaS.
MoroseTroll on 9/5/2011 at 06:47
ZylonBane: Seconded.
Quote Posted by Boxsmith
I eagerly await the day I get to play a Dark Mod FM as polished and innovative as CoSaS
Did you mean Mission X? Would you like to wait another decade for it:eek:?
Melan on 9/5/2011 at 08:07
Good posts. I agree there should be more visibility, and a stronger effort to sell the mod to the players. nbohr1more has been doing a great job on (
http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-dark-mod/news) Moddb, but it would be excellent if the Dark Mod main site could work a bit like The Circle used to when it was still being updated by pavlovscat, The Phantom and Digi:
* articles about FM releases
* in-the-works stuff (like new models, textures and level screenshots - highlights from the "what are you working on?" thread)
* interviews
* reviews
* and a lot of miscellaneous stuff.
However, that also requires someone with a lot of patience and dedication doing the work, and it may be too much to ask of people. The Circle isn't updated much today either, and that is also understandable.
On a campaign, I agree that for the time, Sotha's mission series is the closest to that experience, although Fidcal's missions and Goldchocobo's No Honour Among Thieves also form excellent mini-campaigns. A large one is a great idea, but also a great amount of work if we are talking feature-length missions, high-production-value briefings, and the extra polish that ties it together. It cannot be expected immediately, although I am positive it will come. But there is also an issue here that has been raised before - if a number of active mappers are taken away to work on a campaign for, say, a year, will that lead to a drop-off in mission production elsewhere, and will people start to interpret it as a sign that the mod is not doing well?
I would be more certain if there were more beginner mappers doing their thing and producing smaller missions. My latest, (
http://modetwo.net/darkmod/index.php?/topic/12655-fan-mission-fiasco-at-fauchard-street-by-melan-20110501/) Fiasco at Fauchard Street, is trying to draw attention to the ease of editing in DarkRadiant, and I hope people will try it out on its basis. I did expect more people from the Thief fan mission community would take up TDM and see it as a great platform that plays like Thief, has assets like Thief, and can be used to deliver an experience very close to Thief. (I am suspicious about the "it is not canon" argument. I think that is an excuse.) However, it increasingly looks like what I thought obvious isn't. Actually, I think part of it isn't necessarily about TDM, but general fatigue on TTLG.
SubJeff on 9/5/2011 at 09:32
Yeah, seconding ZylonBane on his proposal for separating TDM into the tools and the missions/fiction. People are unlikely to read the wiki though I do understand it's place in informing FM authors so they have a background.
A campaign to spearhead the creation of a mission site would be great.
Muzman on 9/5/2011 at 10:21
I think even if it were a collection of the best missions made by the early adopters, presented with some proper polish, Hitman: Blood Money style, that would work.
Just something that's a package, a release. Something for people to get their head around. Most fan mission designers start out as players who are inspired after all.
demagogue on 9/5/2011 at 13:17
I've been recommending a separate Fan site for a long time... For one thing, because not all things fans want to do can or even should be official. I was thinking about a place not just to feature FMs, but also a place for crazy FMs, and crazy sourcecode branch projects like adding Mirror's Edge moves or a ninja mod.
You probably can't feature that stuff on the official Darkmod page because they're not official, and you wouldn't want them official anyway because one idea of fanship is separate ownership. But it also helps normal people come in & feel comfortable among other "outsiders", their own band of fans, without having to feel they have to connect to the devs & mappers or get anything technical; that's one of ZB's points as I understand it.
Aaanyway, the only reason it hasn't happened is that there hasn't been a fan that's taken the initiative. That's the only thing really holding it back I think. Yeah we need a Darkmod Pavlovscat circa 2006, or Komag circa 2000, or Digi circa 1998.
SubJeff on 9/5/2011 at 13:31
Don't tempt me.
BrokenArts on 9/5/2011 at 14:51
or me.
