The Dark Mod - TTLG Forums

Yandros on 3/9/2010 at 00:03

Quote Posted by Schwaa2

Lol Yandros, is that what a carbuncles looks like?

No, that would be an icon for "Don't feed the troll".

Muzman on 3/9/2010 at 07:58

Looks more like "Do not present the giant Leprechaun with Jetsons craft"

clearing on 3/9/2010 at 08:29

Doom 3 without all its plastic bumpmapping: (http://www.firingsquad.com/media/gallery_index.asp/244)

d'Spair on 3/9/2010 at 09:24

Quote Posted by Schwaa2

But just to generally say the screenshots look plasticy or boring and dull doesn't help anyone at all.

Ok, let's take a look at the official TDM site.

(http://www.mindplaces.com/darkmod/fidcal4.jpg) For Example

I have no idea why exactly, but all stone and brick textures lack subtlety and pseudo-3D look. They look like wallpapers with brick images, not actually bricks.

SneaksieDave on 3/9/2010 at 14:14

Quote:

Geeze, you really can't please everybody. Somebody wants shinier, other people want "dull and boring". Simple solution...

That's sure the truth, and eventually it becomes evident there's not even any point in trying.

A couple more simple solutions:
1. Those complaining could contribute something (fixes, new assets, etc). I'm meaning the majority of the community who ceaselessly demand of the few who actually produce for the rest. It's not like we have infinite time and hands behind some magic curtain. If you're interested in TDM improving, help it do so.
2. Or, put it out of your mind if it bothers you so much. Forget it exists.

New Horizon on 3/9/2010 at 14:23

Quote Posted by clearing

Doom 3 without all its plastic bumpmapping: (http://www.firingsquad.com/media/gallery_index.asp/244)

Bump mapping is not responsible for the plastic doom 3 look, it's the specular map that does that.

d'Spair on 3/9/2010 at 15:26

Quote Posted by SneaksieDave

Those complaining could contribute something (fixes, new assets, etc). I'm meaning the majority of the community who ceaselessly demand of the few who actually produce for the rest. It's not like we have infinite time and hands behind some magic curtain. If you're interested in TDM improving, help it do so.

Yeah yeah yeah, same old talk. Any music journalist who thinks that the latest Guns 'n' Roses album was shit should've written his piece of music instead of criticizing.

Springheel on 3/9/2010 at 15:30

Quote Posted by d'Spair

Or, you could look at this example:

(http://www.mindplaces.com/darkmod/training1.jpg)

I think you'd be hard pressed to say the bricks in this shot don't look like actual bricks.

Like any fan-created project that spans six years, some art assets are better than others.

nbohr1more on 3/9/2010 at 16:41

I don't really have any problem with the look of TDM but I think that whatever criticism is out there is poorly defined. The "plastic look" is not only related to the specular component but also the fixed specular exponent (glossiness) and the illumination that hit's it.

Light mapped textures have an unfair advantage as all the light behaviors can be baked into them. Doom 3's dynamic lights don't:

1) Bounce
2) Refract
3) Occlude differently depending on material
4) Occlude differently depending on view angle (AO)

No real-time engine can do that. Many of those effects can be faked in a similar way as light-mapping... it's just a difficult process: (http://www.lunaran.com/page.php?id=165) Strombine

The variable glossiness problem can be solved by (http://www.doom3world.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=8255&start=20) "gloss maps" but it's cumbersome to add more shader code to everything else that's going on. That might require Doom 3 source release.
(I am not sure if the upcoming lighting stuff in 1.03 already has a glossiness solution?)

Edit\Update: Yep, if JC Denton's changes make it into 1.03 then Gloss Maps will be in there AFAIK ...see: (http://www.doom3world.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=23226)

Even without gloss maps, you can approximate a lot of these effects by including a carefully designed cubemap into your material definition. TDS doesn't even have the shader support that Doom 3 has yet some of their materials shame TDM ones due to their use of cubemap approximations of specular and gloss:

Material Museum
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHMWSVpIQG8)

If more materials of that quality were added to our library it would help. But the Doom 3 engine can warp right past those examples because of it's robust shader support. We just need the artists. But some recent examples from Serpentine and Melan show that even these examples are being exceeded:

(http://modetwo.net/darkmod/index.php?/topic/10003-so-what-are-you-working-on-right-now/page__view__findpost__p__226576) Serpentine Texture

(http://modetwo.net/darkmod/index.php?/topic/10003-so-what-are-you-working-on-right-now/page__view__findpost__p__218423) Melan Textures

:ebil:

SneaksieDave on 3/9/2010 at 16:57

Quote Posted by d'Spair

Yeah yeah yeah, same old talk. Any music journalist who thinks that the latest Guns 'n' Roses album was shit should've written his piece of music instead of criticizing.

If I was trying to say anything close to what you're sarcastically implying, I would have to change my line of work.

The journalist already knows he has nothing to do with what he's building a career critiquing. You are part of a community built upon freely distributed effort. Not everyone can contribute to the same level of course; some are simply more driven, talented, etc. But everyone can contribute something (even detailed testing) if they think and try hard enough (beyond just despair).

Anyway, no need for back and forth on this, really; if you can't see the difference, by all means sit there and keep whining while benefiting from the hard work of others.