Fingernail on 31/7/2008 at 08:58
Quote Posted by Scots Taffer
On the second point, there's the problem with trying to make this a PG-13/12A type picture when it obviously isn't and then there's the suggestive content over graphic content. I believe that the Joker was far more terrifying precisely BY cutting away and not lingering on a character doing the dirty deeds, because we already "get" from his monologues that he takes great pleasure in using a knife, causing chaos and killing people - these are all well established very early on. Still, I feel what was left in - particularly because it is suggestive of such extreme brutality - should've easily tipped the scale over into 15 or M rating territory... someone somewhere got paid enough dollars to let this one slip into the major audience demographic.
Yeah, I discussed this with my kru - it's pretty much more horrific and flinching if you don't see it, I found myself looking away anyway.
Quote:
That cut and Batman + Rachel falling from the building cut makes no fucking sense to me at all.
Weakest point in the film, the penthouse party has no proper resolution at all. Does the Joker just fuck off after they fall out of the window?
Also Hong Kong was a bit needless. My friend said "it demonstrates that Batman has no boundaries, no limits"
I said "that's right, no skyscraper in the
world is safe"
Stitch on 31/7/2008 at 16:00
What Morte said on both counts.
Dent's fall, while crucial to the story, was bungled. It should have been re-written and folded in earlier so its narrative peak coincided with Joker's. Dent--or a Dent-like figure--could have had the tragic narrative arc without resorting to tacking on another villain in an already overstuffed film.
A far more satisfying story would have been to replace the twin ferry dilemma with a Joker-rigged moral choice that directly involves Dent believably indulging the rage within and reaping tragic consequences. Batman somehow saves the day but Joker wins the battle for Dent's soul. Dent "wakes up" and realizes with horror the atrocity he is responsible for, thereby setting up a true good side/bad side Two-Face struggle in movie three.
As for the implied violence, I actually think the movie sells itself short. I don't necessarily think the "why so serious" scene would have benefited from a gratuitous display of the act at hand, but the intense build up deserved a far more visceral punchline. As was, the moment was pretty anticlimactic.
Tonamel on 31/7/2008 at 16:40
From what I remember, the movie has a rough double three act structure: There are four acts, with the first three being for the Joker's storyline, and the last three for Dent's (the middle two obviously overlapping).
The problem is that the Joker's story is so much more Epic, it really should have been the other way around, with Dent first and Joker last. I don't really have a problem with Dent's storyline, but having it continue after the Joker's just ends up feeling a little weak.
I still think the movie's pretty awesome, though.
mrle01 on 1/8/2008 at 08:33
So the latest rumors say that Jonny Deep will play Enigma, Phillip Seymour Hoffman will play the Penguin and Angelina Jolie will play the Catwoman. I hope these are just rumors.
Shug on 1/8/2008 at 09:01
May I just note that on second viewing, despite the general nitpicking seen in this thread, this movie is twice as good as Begins and definitely one of the better action movies I've seen in recent memory
Chimpy Chompy on 1/8/2008 at 09:19
Quote Posted by Stitch
I don't think Jay's take is any less based in reality than the gushing view of Scots and kin.
The Dark Knight is a pretty mixed affair, and Jay was even spared the movie's terrible last half hour.
On reflection the last half hour is indeed relatively weak. The Fall of Dent stuff is just rushed, and I kinda got confused in places.
But MOAN MOAN 4/10 still feels wrong to me.
thefonz on 5/8/2008 at 06:29
On the topic of villians for the third one - I read (think it was in Empire?) an interview with C.Nolan and his brother who pretty much catagorically said that they arent interested in putting in the villains we've already seen before since they've already been done and there are hundreds of bad guys in the batman mythos who they can use.
So that'll be Clayface and Mad Hatter then :)
Incidentally, i rate this movie as FUCKING AWESOME.
van HellSing on 5/8/2008 at 13:43
Oh please, everyone knows the intention. But it still sucks. And comparing the effect to what Conroy did is distasteful.
Stitch on 5/8/2008 at 14:23
Quote Posted by thefonz
So that'll be Clayface and Mad Hatter then :)
I'd suggest watching either of Nolan's Batman films before predicting villains for film three.
