SD on 15/11/2016 at 16:08
Quote Posted by Renzatic
Being a Nazi or Trump supporter are political stances, not religions or states of being, which aren't covered by the Civil Rights Act, and thus can be denied service.
Yes, it's the same here. Political affiliation or belief is not a protected characteristic. Although philosophical and religious belief is protected, and there is obviously a grey area where those things overlap.
Nevertheless, I would be very surprised if a Nazi won a case under equality legislation because a Jew wouldn't bake them a cake with a swastika. That would be preposterous and offensive to common decency.
heywood on 15/11/2016 at 16:22
The Nazi cake argument misses the point entirely.
This case did not involve a "gay cake", it involved selling an ordinary wedding cake to a gay couple. In a free market, a proprietor can pick and choose what products and services they offer. If a Jewish-owned bakery doesn't want to make a cake with a swastika, they shouldn't have to. But if a white supremacist couple comes into their shop and wants to buy an ordinary wedding cake, they should be able to.
Vivian on 15/11/2016 at 16:26
Hang on hang on, whats your definition of 'gay cake' that doesn't include a gay couple's wedding cake?
Ah yeah ok, you mean one that actually has a bunch of glistening dongs all over it or something. Not just 'the cake of someone gay'.
heywood on 15/11/2016 at 16:37
Cakes aren't gay. The bakery discriminated based on the customer, not the product. That's why it's different than the "Nazi cake".
If you want to buy a cake with a lewd depiction of gay sex on it, and a bakery refuses to make it, that would be fine.
If you want to buy a cake with a swastika on it, and a bakery refuses to make it, that would also be fine.
If you want to buy a wedding cake, like the bakery makes for everyone else, and they refuse to sell you one because you're gay, that's a problem.
Vivian on 15/11/2016 at 16:39
Yeah that makes sense
Renzatic on 15/11/2016 at 16:56
Yeah, what Heywood said. If the only difference between a gay cake and a straight cake or two little chick or dude figures on the top, instead of a chick and a dude, then just make the damn thing. You're making no real extra effort, and you're being paid just as much, so why bother with the drama?
The usual response to this is that people are being forced to do something they don't want to do, and therefore it decreases overall freedoms. Well, no. Cuz, like I stated above, you're not required to go above and beyond what you usually do, and being able to deny people your services for what are ultimately arbitrary reasons results in an equal loss of their freedoms. What the CRA does is codifies the path of least inconvenience. Because having to force someone to drive all over town just to hopefully find a shop that'll serve their particular color of skin, religion, or sexual orientation is considerably worse than being forced to take money from someone you don't like for a service you already provide.
Goldmoon Dawn on 15/11/2016 at 17:49
Why not just get the cake... and put your own figures on top of it!
Renzatic on 15/11/2016 at 17:55
You could do that, but why be forced to go through all that extra effort if the bakeries already have the figures on hand?
Goldmoon Dawn on 15/11/2016 at 18:03
Just in case the caker didnt want to subscribe to men sticking it in each others butts. You could save all the drama, by just going in, not advertising that youre a gay, buy a cake and simply put some gay shit on it! I mean, yes, you are right, but the drama could easily be avoided, and I would bet that many, many gay folk do just this very thing.
Renzatic on 15/11/2016 at 18:30
Quote Posted by Goldmoon Dawn
...but the drama could easily be avoided...
That's something that applies to all sides involved. But to illustrate the point in stark contrast, let's boil the whole situation down to the bare basics, removing identity from the equation altogether.
Someone wants to buy a cake from someone else who makes them.
Why make a big deal of anything beyond this? The major point is that people want a service you provide, and are willing to pay for it. So long as no one wants you to do something beyond the scope of your advertised service, of which a gay wedding is not, since, from a logistical standpoint, it's exactly the same as a traditional marriage, any issues beyond this are entirely extraneous.
