D'Juhn Keep on 7/8/2007 at 18:18
Quote Posted by failure2comply
Heh - that'd be like saying Independence Day is in the same category as The Matrix.
Heh. Noobs.
jtr7 on 7/8/2007 at 19:25
Quote:
...they're supposed to be two guys beating the everliving shit out of each other and using whatever comes to hand to be the guy that doesn't die.
And that's what the shakey-cam brings to it? A sense that they are using whatever's at hand? Just pull the shot back even two feet so I don't feel like I'm a referee, and so I'm not just seeing streaks and smears of color. Then I could see who hit who where with what, instead of piecing the fight together in my mind from those bits where the camera's pulled back and let me in on what I should know. I end up
waiting for the camera to let me see who's getting hurt, who's winning, etc., between extreme up-close shots. Without the shakey-cam, if the camera's in close I see nothing but flailing. I don't mind the shakey-cam itself.
Dia on 7/8/2007 at 19:27
Quote Posted by jtr7
And that's what the shakey-cam brings to it? A sense that they are using whatever's at hand? Just pull the shot back even two feet so I don't feel like I'm a referee, and so I'm not just seeing streaks and smears of color. Then I could see who hit who where with what, instead of piecing the fight together in my mind from those bits where the camera's pulled back and let me in on what I should know. I end up
waiting for the camera to let me see who's getting hurt, who's winning, etc., between extreme up-close shots.
Agreed.
Muzman on 7/8/2007 at 19:34
You guys realise this argument is kinda like telling Monet his stuff's ok but he really needs to work on the details
Vivian on 7/8/2007 at 20:51
To be fair, it's a bit more like telling his Todd McFarlane his arms always look wonky.
jtr7 on 7/8/2007 at 21:03
Heh heh! Okay then.
lunatic96 on 7/8/2007 at 21:07
I honestly don't get people saying they can't tell what's going on in the fight. It doesn't seem that difficult at all to me to tell what's going on. The "shakey" camera just seems to ratchet up the perceived intensity of the fight.
jtr7 on 7/8/2007 at 21:35
Different brains, different processing of visual information, different focus....
Seeing the framerate flicker.
Not being a fighter.
Wondering why the fight scenes are choreographed with NUANCES and THOUGHT OUT only to have the camera zoomed in so close I see blurred fabrics. It's when the pulled back camera shots are edited in that I can see what's happening. Everything in between is a mess. I get the frenetic part, and the emotional part fine. My eyes can't process the flailing blur of fabric as anything but. The sounds are what clue me in on the difference between a block, a miss, a blow to the chest, the stomach. When it blurs vertically I know a blow is up or down. Skin-tone is a clue. While watching I'm processing and realizing after the fact what I think I saw, not right as it happens.
Todd McFarlane's wonky arms flailing all over Monet's impressionistic landscape is too abstract in a "Bourne ---" movie.
DaveW on 7/8/2007 at 21:36
Quote Posted by Ulukai
You saw it here first. Was assuming that as Bourne is "coming home" more of it would be set in the States. My bad.
It is, but my point is that part of it is set in London and you said
'Bourne is no longer in Europe'
Suggesting that the whole film is in America.
Just to add to the whole shakey-cam thing, I think the idea is just to add more of a realism feel to it or something. Personally I prefer action scenes, whatever they are, to have stationary cameras. I can't imagine scenes like the Equilibrium lobby scene in shakey cam (completely different action styles, but you get the idea).
Scots Taffer on 8/8/2007 at 00:07
Quote Posted by lunatic96
I honestly don't get people saying they can't tell what's going on in the fight. It doesn't seem that difficult at all to me to tell what's going on. The "shakey" camera just seems to ratchet up the perceived intensity of the fight.
For me that wasn't the issue. I watched Bourne Identity (or most of it) last night and was surprised by how good I
didn't remember the movie to be. It is pretty much non-stop no-holds-barred action from start to finish, and in the first one there's little or no discernable shakey-cam interrupting our view of the action. There's a hell of a lot of cuts, but that's fine, as most of those are to change perspective and give a sense of urgency to the fights.
Now, I can't remember Supremacy, but I'll defer to youtube to compare two fights:
(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIOI_CQJ9MM) Bourne Identity Apartment Fight versus (
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ba0j-krS6U) Bourne Supremacy Apartment fight
The camera swivels and pans wildly in the Supremacy fight, each blow is usually accompanied by a jerk or swing of the camera and to me, this doesn't add anything to the experience - except a slight feeling of seasickness. A lot of the blows between the fighters occurs at such close proximity that most of what they are doing is lost and it's just a flailing of limbs, less like the professional killer scoped in Identity and more like a bar fight. At no stage do you just get to see a quick cut of action without the camera wobbling like it's being operated by a drunk cameraman on a pogostick in a bouncy castle.
You see more of the specific blows and moves in the Identity brawl, aided pretty well by the Bay-style hyperactive quick-cut editing to give it a sense of pace, but it doesn't take you out of the scene, it keeps you up close and personal, only pulling back to demonstrate how fast and rough these guys are fighting. And it's a fucking awesome action scene, Supremacy pales in comparison.
Jesus Christ, same for the car chases ((
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dv9BEwvoDoY) 1 and (
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCHzmKplMi0) 2), although some of the cameras are stationary in Supremacy, nearly every other scene inside cars has the camera swimming around the scene unable to focus on anything, it's just annoying. I remember why I didn't care for Supremacy now, not to mention the fact that it's basically a carbon-copy of Identity.
