Trappin on 7/10/2007 at 02:13
FWIW, over the medium to long-term, usage actually drops following legalisation
Biggest load of horseshit since the days when horseshit was loaded and weighed - I guess the same goes for drinking right? At what point do marijuana users stop with the holier than thou pot smoking sermons?
Can I walk into a London shop and score a legal bag of green bud? How about Oslo? Rome? Are they "keepin the black man down" ? List the EU countries that allow heroin, marijuana, cocaine and opium to be sold in unregulated non-government stores or neighborhood ma and pa shops.
SubJeff on 7/10/2007 at 09:06
But once they end it what then SD? Do they make everything legal? Government controlled? What heathcare provisions do they make for the inevitable mess-ups?
They can't just say "We give up", stop the "war" and continue everything else like nothing has happened. I agree that this "war" is a ridiculous waste of time, money and effort but just "ending" it isn't, imo, an option.
PS. Now I've moved back to civilisation (The North) when we going to have TTLG The Wirrel Meet? :p
jay pettitt on 7/10/2007 at 09:42
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
They can't just say "We give up", stop the "war" and continue everything else like nothing has happened. I agree that this "war" is a ridiculous waste of time, money and effort but just "ending" it isn't, imo, an option.
I'm guessing you've thought about this a little harder than that sentence implies. Some drugs are associated with various health and social problems and they still need mitigating right? But presumably that's largely true at the moment also. The only upside I see to the omgdrugsfundcommiesbanthemnowmyfellow
commradespatriots policy that we currently have is that courts can rather insist you rehab if you keep being naughty.
Quote Posted by Trappin
horseshit
Drugs have only been criminalised since the Cold War, as recently as 1971 or some such similar year in the case of the UK. There's plenty of precedent. Pot has been decriminalised in Spain among other places.
Jeshibu on 7/10/2007 at 10:57
Quote Posted by jay pettitt
The only upside I see to the omgdrugsfundcommiesbanthemnowmyfellow
commradespatriots policy that we currently have is that courts can rather insist you rehab if you keep being naughty.
Can't they do that with alcohol then?
SD on 7/10/2007 at 13:24
Quote Posted by Trappin
FWIW, over the medium to long-term, usage actually drops following legalisation Biggest load of horseshit since the days when horseshit was loaded and weighed - I guess the same goes for drinking right?
Cannabis use fell when the Netherlands decriminalised it. Since the UK government lowered classification of cannabis from B to C, use has fallen here too. It might be counter-intuitive, but it's a general truism: drug use falls after liberalisation of the drug laws.
Quote:
List the EU countries that allow heroin, marijuana, cocaine and opium to be sold in unregulated non-government stores or neighborhood ma and pa shops.
Well, it used to be all of them...
SubJeff on 7/10/2007 at 14:04
It would be an interesting experiment to decriminalise certain drugs such as cannabis and heroin and have government control of sales. As we've discussed before the quality would be better and since the criminalisation of opiates makes them more dangerous (impure, mixed with other things, unknown exact doses) it really is arguable that since a.use goes down (as has been shown in the cases SD mentioned and others I believe), b.quality is better and c.the cashflow into the criminal pocket would be cut drastically overall outcome would be good.
As I'm sure I've asked before though - which government has the balls to do it?
BEAR on 7/10/2007 at 14:26
The history of illegal drugs was on history channel last night.
They were mentioning that Cocaine has a 1700% markup, ie what it takes you 1 dollar to make they sell for 1700 dollars since the product itself costs nearly nothing.
The end result is that they will have billions of dollars at their disposal, meaning that nothing you ever do will stop them from getting it in the country. Also, being violent cartels, they will spend all the money on weapons to protect their crops (hurray Columbia).
At the same time that as a country we've funded their drug wars, our own war on drugs has cost us as a country 42 billion dollars, and for jack fucking shit.
People are going to get it if they want it. So, where would you rather the money go, to Columbian drug cartels and seedy back alley drug dealers or something you can control and monitor?
Its so fucking obvious but our country is run by old ladies and Sunday school teachers who have this simplistic view of the world that is unimpeded by facts and reason.
Obviously you cant just let it run rampant, which is why treatment is important but I believe its been proven by other countries (like Canada) that treating addiction and even giving junkies a clean place to do their drugs is cheaper and cuts down deaths and disease related to drug use far more than the war on drugs.
catbarf on 7/10/2007 at 14:42
Actually, 1700% means for every dollar it costs them they sell for $17. Think about it.
I agree about the notion that it will exist one way or the other.
I remember when I went to Amsterdam last year. Not only are there marijuana lollipops in candy machines, but I visited a store called 'King of Green' where the floor was made of crushed marijuana seeds... But the thing is, we didn't see many people smoking it. Over there I guess it's just another part of the culture and isn't heavily abused. Of course, I might have no idea what I'm talking about, so feel free to ignore me if you wish :thumb:
Trappin on 7/10/2007 at 15:44
Legalizing pot is a separate issue from legalizing hardcore drugs.
How many EU member states allow hemp production? If the answer is none... Did the autocrats in Brussels receive bribes from the US cotton gin industry? If the answer is all.. then why isn't the European/Canadian agribusiness industry taking advantage of hemp and its genetic superiority over cotton?
Europe, Canada, Australia, UK, Russia, Central America, Japan and 99.263% of all nations worldwide don't allow the free market trade of Marijuana but AmeriKKKa gets the lash? My bullshitte-o-meter is pegged.
I can think of one example of hemp being superior to cotton - the best commercial [shipping industry] rope is still made of hemp/ jute.
Malygris on 7/10/2007 at 16:54
I can't speak for other nations, but one of the reasons the US takes so much heat in Canada for its failed drug war is its obvious opposition to the decriminalization of marijuana possession and use in this country and its heavy-handed attempts to influence domestic policy in that regard.
(
http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/library/PRBpubs/prb0433-e.htm) From December, 2004.
Notice the numerous threats to "clamp down" on the US-Canada border if we continue to liberalize drug laws. Given how dependent Canada is on the free flow of traffic across the border, and what a disastrous economic nightmare it would be if that flow were cut off or even significantly impeded, those statements are nothing more than bold-faced, "My way or the highway" threats.
