That's Me In The Corner... - by fett
Epos Nix on 12/4/2010 at 21:40
Quote:
He may not even realize that's what he's saying, but it is, because pastor's say it all the time to each other. Oftentimes at conventions and retreats where the older ones teach the younger ones how to keep their jobs without people seeing through the smoke and mirrors.
If I were a God-fearing fellow I'd say the evidence is mounting that God forcibly ejected you from the Church.
But I'm not, so He probably didn't, so whateva.... ;)
Namdrol on 12/4/2010 at 22:46
Quote Posted by Harvester
Am I a good person now? Not really, I still see a lot of filth inside myself...(...Christian theology states that no one is really a good person)...
This makes me so sad, any filth is on the outside of you Harvester and all you need to do is wash it off.
This is what is so wrong with Christianity, this belief that all humans are bad just for having been born.
I've come along way from chasing Jehovahs Witnesses down the street demanding that they explain Revelations 7 to me if they say they can save a non jew like me (hey they came to my door and the answer is a cracker involving heavenly parliaments and the the lower class non sealed saved taking up residence back on an earth that can't quite be explained) and I try and not get involved in religious debate any more but I can't stand the pernicious evil that is the doctrine of original sin.
It runs counter to all that I believe.
fett on 12/4/2010 at 22:47
Quote Posted by Epos Nix
If I were a God-fearing fellow, I'd say the evidence is mounting that God forcibly ejected you from the Church.
But I'm not, so He probably didn't, so whateva....
Epos, by the time I quit I was living on $400 a month plus whatever my band made, in a church of 200+, so bite my ass. :p
Epos Nix on 12/4/2010 at 22:53
I fixed my post.
Even so, while you obviously viewed the idea of God kicking you from the church as a slight against your character, might I put forth it could have been more to save yourself from that soulless thing the Church has become...
BEAR on 12/4/2010 at 23:28
That is a hell of a story fett. We've seen little glimpses of it here and there in your posts, but that ties everything up (well, I know there is more to it).
A serious question: Have you considered writing a book? I half hope you are already working on one and this is part of your outline or something.
Maybe you have too much living to do (and I'd understand that), but you have an incredible story to tell, it would be a true shame if we here were among the few to really hear it.
Scots Taffer on 13/4/2010 at 00:03
Fett, I appreciate you taking the time to explain your thought processes and what led you to this point. It may (or may not) be of interest to you that I chronicled my own (less detailed and intimate) devolution of faith and my eventual subsidence into a sort of vague theistic outlook without any prescribed notions of what does or doesn't work (much along the lines of your "I don't know God's mind, if he does exist" comment).
(
http://www.howdoiblog.com/who-are-you-god/) Linky.
Hold strong regardless, it can be a tough road to walk at times - especially when you have family/close people to you who are having doubts.
Incidentally, would you mind saying what your wife's take on all this was - how she struggled and ended up at the same juncture as you?
Harvester on 13/4/2010 at 00:33
Quote Posted by Namdrol
This makes me so sad, any filth is on the outside of you Harvester and all you need to do is wash it off.
This is what is so wrong with Christianity, this belief that all humans are bad just for having been born.
I've come along way from chasing Jehovahs Witnesses down the street demanding that they explain Revelations 7 to me if they say they can save a non jew like me (hey they came to my door and the answer is a cracker involving heavenly parliaments and the the lower class non sealed saved taking up residence back on an earth that can't quite be explained) and I try and not get involved in religious debate any more but I can't stand the pernicious evil that is the doctrine of original sin.
It runs counter to all that I believe.
I agree that one shouldn't feel bad or guilty about being born and being a descendant from Adam, but I wasn't really talking about original sin. I was talking about my own filthy thoughts and desires that I have, which I don't turn into action (or lack of action) as much as I used to, but are still there. My self esteem is higher than it used to be, but I still don't think I'm a very good person, but that's not because of original sin but because of my own sinful thoughts and actions.
I appreciate your concern by the way.
Quote Posted by Nicker
Anecdotal evidence here that belief transforms lives is unconvincing because a) how can we tell if it is sincere as opposed to the obligatory circling of the wagons - and b) evidence says otherwise. It's also the No True Scotsman fallacy, in a frock instead of a kilt.
My own personal testimony wasn't made to say that fett is wrong per se, maybe he's right and Christians don't change nearly as much as they should and as much as the Bible says they will. I just said this to show that it
is possible for one's faith to be a catalyst for change. It's up to you whether you believe my testimony or not, but is it really that hard to believe that my faith motivated me to better myself? I mean of course you're not going to buy it if I say 'God gave me the power to change myself' but even if it's just my own resolve and commitment, why should it be so hard to believe that I was successfully motivated by my faith in God?
SD on 13/4/2010 at 01:17
Fett, you're a brave fella, and a smart one.
Just a thought, but have you been in touch with any of the various groups who help people who have escaped from organised religion?
I agree with Aerothorn too, your story would make a rollicking film.
Quote Posted by Namdrol
This is what is so wrong with Christianity, this belief that all humans are bad just for having been born.
Original sin is the single most digusting concept ever dreamt up by human minds. Of that I think there is no doubt.
CarTech on 13/4/2010 at 01:29
n.t.
