SD on 5/3/2021 at 02:53
Quote Posted by Azaran
Besides ignoring the person, if what they claim can be easily refuted...then refute it! If I ran a science forum and some person came in claiming the earth was flat, I wouldn't ban them, I'd let everyone counter all their points and let reality speak for itself. Unless it became obvious that they were trolling.
Would that scientific reality had the power you're suggesting. This is the post-truth society, where arguments are won by those who hector, bully and shout loudest (at both extremes).
Thirith on 5/3/2021 at 06:43
Quote Posted by heywood
Moderators are needed to enforce the forum rules, not control the narrative. Which rule is nbohr1more breaking?
I don't think the role of a moderator on any forum is to prevent people from voicing alternative opinions on a subject, even if they are wacky opinions.
Quote Posted by Thirith
And the last half-dozen years or so should have provided ample evidence that "You don't have to listen" is a dangerously careless tack to take.
How so?
Fine. If you think those things, after four years of President Alternative Facts and everything that led up to 6 January 2021, there's really not much to talk about. I consider nbohr's brand of crazy dangerous, real-world dangerous, and I believe it's become all the more dangerous because it's been constantly fed by some over the last half-decade (but also before that) and ignored by others. And I think it's important not to provide it with more platforms. No, I don't think there's anyone here at risk of catching nbohr's craziness if they don't already lean that way, but I do think that by allowing him whatever platform he can find here we're feeding his delusions and beliefs on an ongoing basis - whether we respond to him to try to refute him, as Azaran says, or whether we ignore him, like you suggest.
Briareos H on 5/3/2021 at 07:14
Anyone posting demonstrable falsehoods, especially ones that are typically used to emotionally or politically manipulate, without a sincere apology after being corrected deserves to be banned imo. Some things are not just "alternate viewpoints" and for free speech to work, everyone must have a right to assume good faith from others.
Nameless Voice on 5/3/2021 at 11:42
Quote Posted by heywood
Moderators are needed to enforce the forum rules, not control the narrative. Which rule is nbohr1more breaking?
How about this?
Quote Posted by TTLG Forum Rules
No Abusive Behaviour.You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this Forum to
post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, abusive,
hateful, harassing, obscene, sexually explicit, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law.
Hate speech is not tolerated. We will not tolerate abuse upon another member.
froghawk on 5/3/2021 at 12:36
Knowingly.. do you really think he knows?
Quote Posted by Thirith
Fine. If you think those things, after four years of President Alternative Facts and everything that led up to 6 January 2021, there's really not much to talk about. I consider nbohr's brand of crazy dangerous, real-world dangerous, and I believe it's become all the more dangerous because it's been constantly fed by some over the last half-decade (but also before that) and ignored by others. And I think it's important not to provide it with more platforms. No, I don't think there's anyone here at risk of catching nbohr's craziness if they don't already lean that way, but I do think that by allowing him whatever platform he can find here we're feeding his delusions and beliefs on an ongoing basis - whether we respond to him to try to refute him, as Azaran says, or whether we ignore him, like you suggest.
And then you silence them and increase their martyr complex, make them further convinced that they have something important enough to say that it's worth silencing, and make them even louder wherever else they choose to speak. Silencing them reinforces their narrative in a lot of ways.
heywood on 5/3/2021 at 12:48
Do you feel abused by somebody posting deep state conspiracy bullshit? It's not knowingly false to nbohr1more, he's not posting it in bad faith, he really believes it. It's like religion. And where's the hate? If there is any hate to be seen here, it's flowing at him rather than from him.
You guys seem to believe in the same fallacy as nbohr1more, that political arguments in a dumpster thread in the off-topic forum of an obscure website dedicated to a long dead game studio would have any influence on the bunch of old regulars who visit it.
And if you really think that what the guy posts here is somehow dangerous, why keep amplifying it?
Some forums I visit have rules against discussion of politics and religion, which is fine. But TTLG has no such rules. You want this place to be a little exclusive club where nobody from the political opposition is allowed. I really hope that's not where we end up.
Nameless Voice on 5/3/2021 at 13:47
The guy is insane, and I don't think anyone takes him seriously, but you specifically asked which rules he'd broken, and I pointed to them.
He'd probably also just go away if people stopped humouring his insanity, though.
Azaran on 5/3/2021 at 15:02
Quote Posted by SD
This is the post-truth society, where arguments are won by those who hector, bully and shout loudest (at both extremes).
Sad but true
faetal on 16/3/2021 at 09:47
Quote Posted by Azaran
Besides ignoring the person, if what they claim can be easily refuted...then refute it! If I ran a science forum and some person came in claiming the earth was flat, I wouldn't ban them, I'd let everyone counter all their points and let reality speak for itself. Unless it became obvious that they were trolling.
Like when I refuted nbohr's claims that COVID-19 was made in a lab using paragraphs of gene engineering science (including going over the function and purpose of various gene engineering techniques) to talk through key points in a Nature paper showing that the probability of lab manipulation was infinitessimally small - where did that get me?
First a link the website of one of the authors with a commentary that his site was way too fancy for him to not be a paid shill, then a later comment, that my work experience in the field of gene engineering was a bit convenient, and thus the jury was out on me being a paid shill. Yeah, that went great.
That said, I think 2 things here:
1) The ignore function is semi-useful. I've got Tony and Nbohr on ignore because their signal:noise ratio makes them not worth the effort, but sometimes, someone quote something which is just a bit too easy to get my teeth into to ignore. That's on me for sure, but it doesn't mean I'm not an adult - claiming that to be an adult means perfectly ignoring your every waking impulse is just not a realistic or sympathetic way to think of other humans. Tony is easier to ignore as his nonsense is not as occasionally interesting / bizarre as nbohr's.
2) I think the moderation wants to be there, but as a light touch. Banning for being controversial is not what any forum wants, and tbf, anyone going into a "general" forum section on any site knows full well that's where all the arguments and bullshit happen, so if you want a nice forum experience, usually best to stick to the content areas. That said, definitely all for ban hammers when lines are crossed and forum rules are broken. Nbohr's conspiracy waffle, while pretty low value (except when the crazy crossed the interesting threshold), is not ban-worthy, but refuting the validity of other people's contribution on the baseless assumption that they are in the pay of bad actors looking to enslave humanity, is past the line, as that is seeking to disenfranchise other people from the act of discussing, which is what we are here for. To be honest, once you start eliminating other people's opinions at that fundamental level, you have ask why they are even here having the discussion. If this forum is compomised by the deep state, why be here?
june gloom on 16/3/2021 at 20:04
The thing is, this forum does not as a rule care about lines crossed. How many lines did Subjeff cross over the years and nothing happened to him? Or Tony? Or Vae? Or Evabot? Or me? Would Subjeff even be gone if he hadn't gone so far as to harass Al? Is that where the line actually is?
A forum lives and dies on its moderation, and the laissez-faire approach this forum has traditionally taken I think has been to its detriment.