TG FM - Whispers Below the Cobblestone (2021-05-13) - Updated to v1.1 - by Korthak
Estel Randir on 21/12/2022 at 11:55
Quote Posted by Marbrien
I'm in what I think is the Undercity (on Expert), but even with gamma set to max in Options it's really hard to see my way for navigation/exploration, because there are so many shadows which are unnaturally pitch black. It is possible to do anything about this?
This is my biggest complaint with the mission. I use the lantern mod to compensate for missions that are too dark. The darkness is just too much and takes away from the exploration factor.
Estel Randir on 21/12/2022 at 12:01
In the undercity there is a dead end with a drunk guy and a barrel. Just past him is a short wall and over that is darkness with a few pillars in the distance. This is a black bottomless pit. Maybe the intent was for this to be a bottomless pit, but I find it adds nothing to the level and is a bit out of place. I jumped multiple times into it from various angles and found nothing but blackness and death.
bassoferrol on 21/12/2022 at 21:38
Quote Posted by Estel Randir
The blue (missing) texture issue is related to using additional texture packs. For example the newer versions of ep2.crf will cause this issue. The old alpha version of ep2.crf will not. HD mod also has blue (missing) textures.
What I sometimes have in a few places is a white texture that corresponds to a tree or a vine.
That makes the FPS drop drastically making the game nearly impossible to play.
What I do to partially solve it is delete startmis.sav and reload.
baeuchlein on 22/12/2022 at 03:50
The mission just seems to be incompatible with additional texture packs. The info file already says: "The mission has not been tested with any kind of texture packs. It is recommended to play it without one."
I have found blue textures when using the EP2.CRF from December 18th, 2021. Usually, a texture that was shipped with Thief 1 was missing. I then extracted those textures from the game's resources, placed them in the FM pack, and went further. Everytime I "repaired" a texture, another blue one would appear shortly afterwards.
I then had to enable the so-called LAA flag for DromEd.exe, and later even for Thief.exe, in order to proceed. This basically means that the programs needed more memory. But then more and more texture related error messages showed up in the monolog.txt which DromEd wrote while loading the mission. Finally, I had a monolog.txt that ended like this:
WARNING: skipping unknown blend function '' in material 'mtrack04.mtl'
WARNING: skipping unknown blend function '' in material 'mtrack01.mtl'
WARNING: skipping unknown blend function '' in material 'mtrack02.mtl'
WARNING: 'texture' param in 'render_pass' block in material 'opsigng.mtl' failed to load texture "tex/envmaps/GoldEnv"
WARNING: 'texture' param in 'render_pass' block in material 'opsign.mtl' failed to load texture "tex/envmaps/GoldEnv"
WARNING: skipping unknown blend function '' in material 'grate4.mtl'
WARNING: skipping unknown blend function '' in material 'grate3.mtl'
WARNING: skipping unknown blend function '' in material 'ironflor.mtl'
HEY! YOU! Out of Texture Slots!
Obviously, the game engine is overloaded in some way when using such texture packs.
So, deactivate your EP's, HDMODs and whatever else you have that modifies game textures, and try again. If that fixes your problem, play without these mods and be happy with that.
Maybe there's a reason for the warning given in the mission's info file. I am notoriously ignoring such files as well, but once one has problems with a mission, one should have a look at that info file. That's one reason for why these files are there.
If, however, anyone still has problems when all such texture packs are already disabled, then there's another problem still present, and someone might be inclined to find the cause of that problem.
Estel Randir on 22/12/2022 at 06:47
Quote Posted by bassoferrol
What I sometimes have in a few places is a white texture that corresponds to a tree or a vine.
That makes the FPS drop drastically making the game nearly impossible to play.
What I do to partially solve it is delete startmis.sav and reload.
You obviously have different issues than conflict with texture pack.
Estel Randir on 22/12/2022 at 06:58
Quote Posted by baeuchlein
The mission just seems to be incompatible with additional texture packs. The info file already says: "
The mission has not been tested with any kind of texture packs. It is recommended to play it without one."
I have found blue textures when using the
EP2.CRF from December 18th, 2021. Usually, a texture that was shipped with Thief 1 was missing. I then extracted those textures from the game's resources, placed them in the FM pack, and went further. Everytime I "repaired" a texture, another blue one would appear shortly afterwards.
I then had to enable the so-called LAA flag for
DromEd.exe, and later even for
Thief.exe, in order to proceed. This basically means that the programs needed more memory. But then more and more texture related error messages showed up in the
monolog.txt which DromEd wrote while loading the mission. Finally, I had a
monolog.txt that ended like this:
WARNING: skipping unknown blend function '' in material 'mtrack04.mtl'
WARNING: skipping unknown blend function '' in material 'mtrack01.mtl'
WARNING: skipping unknown blend function '' in material 'mtrack02.mtl'
WARNING: 'texture' param in 'render_pass' block in material 'opsigng.mtl' failed to load texture "tex/envmaps/GoldEnv"
WARNING: 'texture' param in 'render_pass' block in material 'opsign.mtl' failed to load texture "tex/envmaps/GoldEnv"
WARNING: skipping unknown blend function '' in material 'grate4.mtl'
WARNING: skipping unknown blend function '' in material 'grate3.mtl'
WARNING: skipping unknown blend function '' in material 'ironflor.mtl'
HEY! YOU! Out of Texture Slots!Obviously, the game engine is overloaded in some way when using such texture packs.
So, deactivate your EP's, HDMODs and whatever else you have that modifies game textures, and try again. If that fixes your problem, play without these mods and be happy with that.
Maybe there's a reason for the warning given in the mission's info file. I am notoriously ignoring such files as well, but once one has problems with a mission, one should have a look at that info file. That's one reason for why these files are there.
If, however, anyone still has problems when all such texture packs are already disabled, then there's another problem still present, and someone might be inclined to find the cause of that problem.
As I stated previously, the updated ep2.crf (2021) causes issues, so does HDMOD. I can use the previous ep2.crf alpha version just fine. If anyone wants to help improve the enhancement pack (it is still an ongoing project), please submit the issue to the thread found here:
(
https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141621)
baeuchlein on 22/12/2022 at 22:56
I have analyzed the situation a bit further. There is not a single texture (and, in fact, not even a single folder with textures) in the EP2 (one of the 2021 versions) that causes this. Once I delete enough texture folders of EP2, things start to become normal. Unpacking all textures of a fam.crf file of Thief 1 into the fam folder of the FM (which might replace some hi-res textures with low-res ones) also does not help. Using the version of the EP2 I obtained in 2017, however, does help. That one has far less megabytes in size, about 0.9 GBytes, whereas the 2021 versions have about 1.6 GBytes. And the HD MOD is so large (3.2 GBytes, says the installer) that it doesn't even fit on my hard disk at the moment.
I'm pretty sure by now that it's just too much stuff for an old engine (even if it has been upgraded to NewDark) that was designed to run on an OS (Windows 9x) that could not even handle more than 0.5 GBytes of RAM. Some FMs (with somewhat lesser demands for texture memory) and some OS' might handle it a tiny bit better, but I doubt anything else than downgrading the EP2 (to the alpha version mentioned, or to some other versions from before 2021) or simply not using it will help.
Anyone thinking otherwise may, of course, try to convince the makers of the EP or the HD MOD.
Estel Randir on 23/12/2022 at 01:57
Quote Posted by baeuchlein
I have analyzed the situation a bit further. There is not a single texture (and, in fact, not even a single folder with textures) in the EP2 (one of the 2021 versions) that causes this. Once I delete enough texture folders of EP2, things start to become normal. Unpacking all textures of a
fam.crf file of Thief 1 into the
fam folder of the FM (which might replace some hi-res textures with low-res ones) also does not help. Using the version of the EP2 I obtained in 2017, however, does help. That one has far less megabytes in size, about 0.9 GBytes, whereas the 2021 versions have about 1.6 GBytes. And the HD MOD is so large (3.2 GBytes, says the installer) that it doesn't even fit on my hard disk at the moment.
I'm pretty sure by now that it's just too much stuff for an old engine (even if it has been upgraded to NewDark) that was designed to run on an OS (Windows 9x) that could not even handle more than 0.5 GBytes of RAM. Some FMs (with somewhat lesser demands for texture memory) and some OS' might handle it a tiny bit better, but I doubt anything else than
downgrading the EP2 (to the alpha version mentioned, or to some other versions from before 2021) or simply not using it will help.
Anyone thinking otherwise may, of course, try to convince the makers of the EP or the HD MOD.
There is already much discussion regarding texture optimization, etc in the ep2 thread. The author has been more than willing to work out the bugs. I basically beta tested the new upgrades last year and discovered issues with them & they were fixed in a few days. Issues / findings reported in this thread will just get buried. Please report your findings in the ep2 thread.
baeuchlein on 23/12/2022 at 02:38
Although I doubt anyone would have objected if you had simply mentioned this in the EP2 thread (or at least linked to the thread here), I have now posted a short summary of the discussion here in the EP2 thread, as well as a link to your first post about the blue textures here. We'll see what happens.
Estel Randir on 23/12/2022 at 04:27
Quote Posted by baeuchlein
Although I doubt anyone would have objected if
you had simply mentioned this in the EP2 thread (or at least linked to the thread here), I have now posted a short summary of the discussion here in the EP2 thread, as well as a link to your first post about the blue textures here. We'll see what happens.
There is no reason to be a snide jerk. I do not owe you any explanation for anything. I have recently decided I have no time for ill mannered people anymore on "social media". That is what the ignore function is for.
