Gorgonseye on 14/5/2007 at 23:57
Quote Posted by fett
That's the big :confused: for me. How do you plan against an armed attack? When these shootings happen
almost every single detail is different (except people ending up dead) - the building, the method of the shooters, the possible escape routes, the possibilities of taking the gunman down, etc. etc. etc.
Here's an idea: teach kids how to think deductively, quickly, and logically, so they can make good, possible life saving decisions, in crisis situations. Almost sounds like what
public education should be.
Admittedly, this sounds pretty good, at least in theory. But come to think of it, there's little you actually CAN do. Okay, so, some guy is outside the school with a gun, oh crap, quickly, get under the desk so he can't see you, oh crap, he's coming for the door, lock it and get up against the wall so he can't see or reach you. Bomb threat? Get out of the god damned building. Fire? Get out. At a certain point, you can't always be "taught" to think on your feet, that's sometimes a natural talent.
Okay, so, maybe you can disarm him, HOW?. Few students are going to be able to disarm them alone, that's usually something you expect the TEACHER to be able to to do if anyone, not the student in the back of the class. At some point, your just freaking frozen with fear, and at that age, it's usually "oh god oh god oh god." How do you actually TEACH thinking like that?
Something like this? "Okay class, we're going to have you stand in middle of the road, and we'll have our drivers ed. teacher drive straight for you, if your smart you'll be able to jump out of the way in time. Jimmy your up."
Jimmy: Uhhh....what? *Car drives towards Jimmy*
Jimmy: Seriously, what th- *Car hits little Jimmy*
Teacher: Ah crap, ok Sarah, your turn. Oh, yea, Tom? Call Jimmy's parents ok? Thanks.
Seriously, after a while, you can't teach everyone to do something smart or how to be a hero or what not, you have to be able to get in control of everyone, and stop them from just doing something freaking stupid.
Swiss Mercenary on 15/5/2007 at 00:31
Quote:
Admittedly, this sounds pretty good, at least in theory. But come to think of it, there's little you actually CAN do.
Doing just about anything is probably preferable to trying to play dead, while a gunman's walking around, shooting people doing the same thing you are.
I can't say I can see the exercise that was pulled at all productive. What was it supposed to teach the students? How to shriek and wail when the lights go out?
I think just running in different directions might do.
D'Juhn Keep on 15/5/2007 at 00:35
Quote Posted by Gorgonseye
Okay, so, maybe you can disarm him. But few students are going to be able to disarm them alone, that's usually something you expect the TEACHER to be able to to do
what
fett on 15/5/2007 at 01:40
Did you not have to take 3rd degree marital arts as part of your general ed major? What country do you live in?
Telliamed on 15/5/2007 at 02:37
Quote Posted by CandyStick
Where else could they get such a cool and intense experience, for free none the less.
Ever hear of PTSD? If I own a theater and in the middle of a show walk in and yell "Fire!", everyone will get freaked-out and scramble to the exits. Then I'd be arrested. The cops won't give a damn if I say, "But it was only a drill."
As well, did these teachers have any kind of formal training on how to conduct emergency preparedness drills? Were any law enforcement officers aware of the exercise? The article only mentions classroom teachers and one administrator being involved. Not exactly experts in crisis management.
Quote Posted by SlyFoxx
These idiots should be fired.
Loss of employment is too good for them. They need to be arrested on charges of making a terroristic threat. Just like the other cases of fake threats that have been made recently. I'm surprised they weren't arrested immediately. If one of the students had a cell phone and had dialed 911, they would have been.
Quote Posted by CandyStick
The thing is that kids just don't take drills seriously, which kind of defeats the whole purpose of drills.
No it doesn't. The standard "fire drill" has been going on for decades with every student knowing in advance that it was going to happen. But no one has ever criticized the practice because of that.
The point of a drill isn't to simulate an emergency in a realistic way, but to allow people to go through the motions in a controlled scenario. When a real emergency does occur, you may be frightened and even panicking, but the experience of the drill has given you enough knowledge to know the best action you can take. Even if you weren't "taking it seriously" at the time, the memory is still there.
Drills also let you analyze an emergency plan for problems. If during a fire drill you see it takes a minute and a half longer for all the students to exit from door A than those going to door B, then you'd consider rerouting some of the classrooms from A to B to relieve the congestion. It also verifies that the electrical and mechanical components of the warning systems are functioning properly. Or if the placement of an alarm or emergency light isn't effective. There are a lot of scientific things going on during a drill that must be planned ahead of time. It's not just, "Let's yell 'Fire!' and see what happens."
DinkyDogg on 15/5/2007 at 03:21
Quote Posted by fett
Did you not have to take 3rd degree
marital arts as part of your general ed major? What country do you live in?
That sounds like a very good idea.
The_Raven on 15/5/2007 at 04:29
Quote:
I'm not quite sure why lying on the floor and hiding under desks is supposed to make people safe from a gunman. Run away, sure, run at, maybe, sit still and get executed? Not so great.
Didn't you ever hear of Duck and Cover?
Aerothorn on 15/5/2007 at 04:37
Far as I can think, the only way to deal with a gunman armed with a non-automatic weapon is for all 30 kids to rush him at once. He'll take some down but he can't get em all before they mob and disarm him.
Of course, to do this people would have to be REALLY well trained and pretty brave. Most people will think of themselves, not do it, and then EVERYONE will die. So while it's maybe the best response it's not a practical training method, probably.
Sigh.
Swiss Mercenary on 15/5/2007 at 05:32
Quote Posted by The_Raven
Didn't you ever hear of Duck and Cover?
I hear it doesn't work too well when the gunman decides to stick around.
Shadow Creepr on 15/5/2007 at 06:45
Quote Posted by David
Something tells me that if they escape with their jobs then they may find their career growth somewhat stunted.
Because of the lack of teachers available to teach in the schools now they will probably keep their jobs. I think it is unfortunate because 'lack of judgement' doesn't quite cover what they did. I think it's appalling. Those kids were scared within an inch of their life. Whatever possessed these teachers to pull such an insensitive stunt is beyond me. :nono:
I'll be curious to see how the Tennessee State Board of Education deals with this one.
