Kolya on 9/11/2008 at 11:13
Quote Posted by fett
Are you retarded?
Maybe you should be a teacher because obviously you have no problems arguing on the level of a 5th grader, fett.
When I was that age I went to school in eastern Germany where our teachers lied to us about politics all the time and tried to form little patriotic soldiers of the boys, with visits to nearby military installations, parades, etc. That's an extreme situation of course. When we moved to western Germany school was more comparable to what you find in the states. By then (12yo) I had learned to hold an isolated view and defend it, to distrust authorities and to stay skeptical. Skills that have served me well ever since.
So you see, I'm not retarded, but I come from a slightly different direction than your lily ass. And I said, that teacher pulled it off bad by singling her out. But she did tell her the truth at least. And if Kathy went home and asked her mom why she voted for someone who wanted to keep daddy in Iraq for 100 years, what exactly is the problem with that? You think her mom isn't capable of "explaining" this to her?
If they're having a discussion about current politics and do not keep it to general system theory, then it's important they keep to the facts. People can handle the truth. And that includes children.
kidmystik101 on 9/11/2008 at 11:28
I'm gunna have to go with kolya on this one, to a point. I think that while the teacher did cock it up fairly majorly on that one, hiding the truth from the girl does nothing in the long run. 5th grade is what, 11 years old? They're old enough to handle the information and form their own conclusions.
Could have been worded much, much better though.
Starrfall on 9/11/2008 at 15:07
So since the teacher was really concerned about making sure this girl knew the truth I'm assuming she also provided context for McCain's statement and explained the difference between staying at war for 100 years and staying as part of a peaceful operation for 100 years. I'm assuming she also explained that while we've maintained a decades-long military presence in some countries, some people feel that such a thing wouldn't be possible to do peacefully in Iraq because of the unique cultural and religious controversies, not to mention the new presence of terrorist groups, and that this is why people think McCain's idea is bad.
I mean she must have explained all of that because she wanted the girl to have the information to draw her own conclusions, right? And the teacher would have known that an 11-year-old probably wouldn't be able to provide the context needed to evaluate McCain's statement, and since the teacher was only trying to set the truth free and wasn't at all any sort of intellectual lightweight who needed to score points against an 11 year old to make herself feel better about the world or whatever she obviously would give the girl all of the facts needed to come to an informed decision.
Ostriig on 9/11/2008 at 15:18
Quote Posted by Kolya
When I was that age I went to school in eastern Germany...
So you denounce the former Communist indoctrination attempts in schools, but you don't recognize that the teacher is clearly trying to push her own political views on the child? And the fact that it's "the truth" doesn't make it any better. It's not only that she singled the kid out, but rather that instead of calmly trying to explain the two candidates' different stances on the Iraq war, to the extent you can explain this stuff to children, she tried to scare her student into adopting her preferred stance.
And I don't know about you, but if I had an 11 year-old, I wouldn't want to have to try and explain the often complicated and harsh realities behind international political and military movements just because some dumbass working at my kid's school felt the need to vent her political frustrations. They're kids and they don't need to be introduced to this sort of shit at their age. Let them enjoy life for now, they'll have plenty of time to grow cynical and skeptical like us later on.
*Zaccheus* on 9/11/2008 at 15:36
I think the teacher should have remained impartial in that discussion. That's the only way to get anyone to open up and explain their views. Maybe factual errors can be addressed (i.e "did you know iraq was not behind 9/11") but if you ask a kid to tell you their views and then attack them for doing so ... that just seems plain wrong to me.
Thief13x on 9/11/2008 at 16:20
pretty fucking sickening if I may say so myself. I don't think I began holding my own political opinions apart from my parents' until I was 15 or 16....Half the adults in this world don't know why they vote the way they vote, why does she expect a 5th grader to!
If I was one of those kids, I would have chimed in: I'm voting for McCain to!
"Why?"
*insert racially insensitive and politically incorrect blasphemy here*
ArcturusXIV on 9/11/2008 at 16:23
I hate to say this, but a lot of teachers aren't that bright. :)
fett on 9/11/2008 at 16:50
Quote Posted by Kolya
Maybe you should be a teacher because obviously you have no problems arguing on the level of a 5th grader, fett.
Um...yeah, that's was my main occupation for 15 years. And that's exactly the point. When you're teaching fifth graders you have to argue on their level. You have to think like a 5th grader and carefully consider the way in which you administer the truth or you completely decimate the child's ability to form any kind of opinion that doesn't square with group think (as Starrfall so eloquently described). Just because your education was fucked up and you turned out alright (relatively) doesn't mean your education was good. If you understand anything about social development you'd realize how damaging this could have been to the kid. Teaching isn't about telling the truth, it's about teaching a child HOW TO DETERMINE THE TRUTH based on factual, unbiased information and objective assessment. It has EVERYTHING to do with the WAY in which you administer those facts. This teacher failed in all of the above so she could get off on bullying a 5th grader--there's nothing more to it than that. She obviously doesn't give a rat's ass about teaching, but she sure seems to enjoy preaching. There's a huge difference.
I've been around enough teachers to tell from her body language and verbage that she's a fat idiot who enjoys a position of authority so she can belittle other people and feel good about herself. But Starrfall already covered that.
*Did you ever consider why we don't just show porn to 10 year olds instead of teaching them about reproduction in health classes. It's called 'developmentally appropriate methods' and I'm sorry if they don't have those in Germany. We're actually trying to teach kids to think here, not prepare them for a militia.
SD on 9/11/2008 at 16:54
Pay peanuts to public school teachers, get monkeys: Republican chickens coming home to roost.
