Renault on 15/11/2013 at 16:00
I think you're right on that, but I suppose it all comes down to how it's integrated/implemented into the game.
Starker on 15/11/2013 at 16:35
I wouldn't mind an ironman option, but I don't exactly need it. I'd rather they had put their efforts into making a tight and focused thieving simulator. Unfortunately, the design seems to be all over the place.
King No One on 15/11/2013 at 17:04
At this point it's pointless to try and change the views of anyone in this debate. The hate brigade feel safe and comfortable in their insulating blanket of facile, sneering condescension. On the other hand those willing to at least play the game before rendering final judgement are sick of being derided as EM apologists.
I’m putting this argument six-feet under here and now; physics simulation in Dromed was flawed. I've shot rope arrows into objects that were clearly meant to be wood but instead registered as stone, losing me the rope arrow and making a hell of a noise. I've carpeted areas with Moss Arrows to eliminate any sound of my landing and jumped onto them only for nearby guards to react and start searching the shadowy spot I jumped to. Frobbing doors from six feet away, fire arrows that don’t actually set anything on fire, swimming while weighed down by pounds of equipment/loot, I could go on.
As for freeform exploration so long as NuThief is better in that regard than TDS then it’s a step in the right direction for the series. EMs Thief won’t be perfect, they could fix all of the reported bugs and it still wouldn’t be perfect, they could change the voices and it STILL wouldn’t be perfect. NOTHING IS ‘PERFECT’ but all Nu Thief has to be to is be a Thief experience to match or surpass Deadly Shadows (Which I like btw) can anyone honestly state it won’t be better than TDS?
Anyway from a strictly immersive perspective why would you want to swim in any body of water in the City? As technology has better managed to render the environs of the City to reflect the analogous historical periods that inspired it the water has looked less and less inviting. Never mind pneumonia, try diphtheria and cholera.
King No One on 15/11/2013 at 17:10
Provisos for anyone arguing that TDS is better than NuThief:
Stephen Russell is invalid and was never a valid argument from the outset. What about all of the fine members of this community that came to Thief through localisations in their native countries? Was their experience of Thief diminished as a result?Are they lesser fans because they never had Stephen Russell? Is Drk not a true Taffer?
Factions are also invalid. All the hate for Deadly Shadows representation of Keepers/Hammerites/Pagans and then you'd facetiously use them as a ‘better that than something else' argument?
Creatures are invalid. Such encounters are down to the story/setting team and they obviously found no place in their narrative for the old beasties. Why is something experienced players know how to avoid/beat better than something new? EM has said they've made arrangements to acknowledge the horror aspects of the series in game. Whether that deals with Gloomed folk or something to do with those heads in jars...we shall find out, hand in hand with new fans, that's an exciting thing. Hell EM deserves praise for bucking the trend for every game including zombies in one way or another.
Valid arguments: No Eric Brosius Sound Design, Calling a character Basso when he should so obviously be Cutty, no collage effect cutscenes and Riffing on Dishonored (Artistic Revenge?)
King No One on 15/11/2013 at 17:12
Final word:
All of the features that represented real concerns for me with the new game have been addressed, everything I don't want I can disable. So those who claim that in spite of everything that they won't be able to immerse themselves in the game can't have held any real feeling of agency in the original series. Whatever limitations are present in the gameplay of Nuthief I still believe I'll be able to immerse myself in the game because it's. not. that. difficult.
Starker on 15/11/2013 at 18:47
Maybe people who are not liking the reboot don't want to be called irrational/rabid/frothing lunatics either. Have you thought about that? It's great that you like the reboot. Is it so difficult to grasp that some people might not?
Also, nobody claims LGS's Thief was perfect. Way to attack a strawman! However, I can honestly state that currently the reboot is looking to be a worse Thief game than TDS.
If the other Garrett voice actors in other languages were so brilliant, where are the petitions to bring them back? Stephen Russell was a big part of Thief for every English speaking player and he really brought the character to life.
The TDS faction system was a stupid addition. You shoot a few moss arrows around the city and suddenly every pagan is willing to risk his life for you as if they had some kind of a hivemind? Nope, do not want.
The creatures are a part of Thiefverse and tie in to the overarching nature vs civilization theme. The zombies are a likewise a representation of necromancy and dark magic that exists in that world. So far I have not seen any adequate replacements. In fact, the grimdark Victorian industrial revolution seems a pretty bland replacement for Thief's medieval fantasy steampunk.
Thor on 15/11/2013 at 19:45
Vae, I'm sorry, but do you honestly, genuinely believe the shit you say? It's like you're stuck in some really stubborn mode where you really just get the kick out of bashing whatever it is in Thief that isn't exactly the same as it was with that game with polygonial AIs 15 years ago. Time
is a factor. Game engines have become way different, and as conservative as your kind of people love to be sometimes, not all changes are for the bad.
Quote Posted by Vae
So what we have here is yet another disingenuous excuse from Schmidt, in order to obfuscate the real reason that is doesn't conform to EM's freedom-limiting design philosophy...Not only will there be no swimming, the game will be NuCity-centric, as well....:grr:
You know, if limiting the player was their point, then doing it with city waters would be far easier than with the actual open, sprawling city where everywhere goes everywhere. It's probably just an engine limitation. If they know what they're doing, they can get away without the water feature, and it's not going to be moddable anyway.
Quote Posted by Vae
It looks like Schmidt is using the self-imposed restrictions and terms that community members made up, and crediting himself for the idea...A minor improvement in the presence of a disgraceful act.
Because the good news are minor and minor bad news are tragic. Just adressing your general way of thinking/speaking here.
Quote Posted by Vae
So NuThief is going to have achievements, and
no restrictions on gameplay unless you choose to ghost...which ultimately strikes at the very heart of THIEF gameplay...:(
Hold your horses, we don't know if he actually meant to say that ghosters will only have 1 path. It wouldn't make much sense for them to speak of no restrictions but then restrict the players who care about them the most.
Quote Posted by Vae
So not only will there be combat upgrades, but stealth upgrades, as well...Hooray!...:mad:
What's wrong with a few upgrades during the game? Too dynamic for you? The old games did that sort of thing as well, even thief. It was the act of introducing and awesomer weapon/gadget somewhat later in the game.
Quote Posted by Vae
Say goodbye to Player Skill...:(
Say hello to choice, specialization and optimization of your methods! It can go either way, no need to make assumptions.
Quote Posted by Vae
While this sounds nice, it will only be a minor improvement within the context of major problems...as the QTE's were only a very small part of the gameplay to begin with.
Removal of QTEs sounds like an appropriate thing. Thief really isn't that sort of a game. The fact that they wanted to have them, though, implies that it'll be a somewhat fast paced action game. Or that they wanted to follow the trend. Hm, did QTEs become popular to hold the attention to gamers so they don't get bored or something? I like the more ancient version of QTEs, like when the ground under you suddenly breaks in and you have to use your normal playing icons to overcome obstacles rather than mashing random keys at the right time. Mmh.
Alright I'm done. I don't mean to insult you, Vae (was a little heated up when I started the post, though), but please just don't try to intentionally be so negative. It'll make you feel that much siller if you end up liking the actual game (unless maybe you give yourself the credit).
Ceamonks890 on 15/11/2013 at 20:07
I'm sorry, but there's an upgrade system for stealth?! In a Thief game? And for such meaningless aspects in the form of quieter footsteps, reduced detectability and smoother lockpicking?! Oh, why don't you remove player control and the few remaining bits of actual challenge, while you're at it Eidos Montreal? Because you're doing such a good job at making the game less interactive and appealing as a result. If I ever bother to rent this, I'm gonna make sure I play through the whole game as much as I possibly can, without the vast majority of upgrades, just to prove how unneeded game design of this nature is in Thief.
Beleg Cúthalion on 15/11/2013 at 21:08
Quote Posted by Starker
If the other Garrett voice actors in other languages were so brilliant, where are the petitions to bring them back?
Maybe these communities were smaller in the first place and less jumpy. :erg: Plus, TDS was never given localized voice actors and at least in the German version the Garrett actor changed from T1 to T2. Both of them are still held in high regard which should tell you something about their quality but also the ability to enjoy Thief without having the main character linked to one certain voice. For the record, the latest Garrett actor was not considered for T4 because of EM's re-imagined Garrett, otherwise we would have gotten (
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDjStgCO7y0) him.
Starker on 15/11/2013 at 21:26
Um... Nobody is claiming that the game would necessarily be bad without Stephen Russell. Only that Russell is an exceptional voice actor (in or outside Thief).