AntiMatter_16 on 1/12/2013 at 08:27
The textures are the same as the originals in your screenshot. Unless you're referring to the blackjack? Those replacements were used since they original playerarm holding weapons was hopelessly broken.
If you don't want to use the object fixes in Thief2 Fixed, (There aren't any enhanced textures included in those fixes), simply delete the obj, and mesh folders. You'll of course, end up with the original visual bugs by doing this though. This will also remove the RSoul's carrybody icons. However, these fixed objects and carrybody icons aren't any higher poly than the originals, and use the original textures included in the game. They could not be the result of your slowdown.
(I think you'll also need to delete the dark.gam.dml, and the miss##.mis.dml files as well.)
Your slowdown is likely the result of settings in cam_ext.cfg. I'm not all the familiar with the different ones included in tafferpatcher, but you can just drop in cam_ext from the manual newdark install.
voodoo47 on 1/12/2013 at 11:15
I just love it when they think they're smart. especially the "it does not work for ME, that's the PROOF it's broken" thing alway makes me laugh. my oldschool radeon x1950pro (a card from 2006, that's friggin' seven years old) can run with FSAA enabled with an average performance drop of 1-3%. that is not exactly what I would call "significant change of requirements". running with anti-aliasing enabled is todays standard, and will not cause problems on any, and I do mean ANY decent gpu out there, that's why it's enabled by default. and for all those running intel integrated jokes, there is always the option of disabling it manually. so there is nothing wrong with the patch, it's just you. and, unlike you, I CAN back this up, as I have tested NewDark on many different configurations - and found out that FSAA is causing significant slowdowns only when extremely old (think 10+ year old non-dx9 hardware) and slow hardware is used.
also, the resource overhaul pack will not change the requirements in any way, whatever performance change you see there, it's just in your head. but, as I always say, to each his own - run the game in whatever way you like. it's not like anyone is forcing you to use the patch. but do us a favor, do NOT proclaim that something is broken or useless when you have absolutely no idea how things work.
DarkLord on 1/12/2013 at 17:14
Quote Posted by AntiMatter_16
The textures are the same as the originals in your screenshot. Unless you're referring to the blackjack? Those replacements were used since they original playerarm holding weapons was hopelessly broken.
If you don't want to use the object fixes in Thief2 Fixed, (There aren't any enhanced textures included in those fixes), simply delete the obj, and mesh folders. You'll of course, end up with the original visual bugs by doing this though. This will also remove the RSoul's carrybody icons. However, these fixed objects and carrybody icons aren't any higher poly than the originals, and use the original textures included in the game. They could not be the result of your slowdown.
(I think you'll also need to delete the dark.gam.dml, and the miss##.mis.dml files as well.)
Your slowdown is likely the result of settings in cam_ext.cfg. I'm not all the familiar with the different ones included in tafferpatcher, but you can just drop in cam_ext from the manual newdark install.
Just so we are 100% clear about things. I have absolutely nothing against your patch
outside the context of tafferpatcher!
I know that the offending visual content can be manually deleted,
it's very presence is my point. These "visual bugs" are bugs according to your (perhaps better) judgment. I am not saying that
your opinion whether they are bugs is wrong (personally I believe that they are not bugs), I am saying that tafferpatcher should allow the user to install the game
without changing any visual content. I can not install tafferpatcher with only a sub portion of your patch (just the mission fixes), it is all or nothing (unless I am manually installing your patch after tafferpatcher, but isn't automation the whole point of tafferpatcher?). Am I wrong to request a better vanilla experience from tafferpatcher's developers? Obviously I am.
By the way, where exactly have I claimed or implied that these changed models are the reason for the significant loss of performance on my machine? Please quote! I suggest reading my first post again and notice that I have two
different major issues with tafferpatcher. I have never claimed that they are related issues, have I?
Quote Posted by voodoo47
I just love it when they think they're smart. especially the "it does not work for ME, that's the PROOF it's broken" thing alway makes me laugh. my oldschool radeon x1950pro (a card from 2006, that's friggin' seven years old) can run with FSAA enabled with an average performance drop of 1-3%. that is not exactly what I would call "significant change of requirements". running with anti-aliasing enabled is todays standard, and will not cause problems on any, and I do mean ANY decent gpu out there, that's why it's enabled by default. and all those running intel integrated jokes, there is always the option of disabling it manually. so there is nothing wrong with the patch, it's just you. and, unlike you, I CAN back this up, as I have tested NewDark on many different configurations - and found out that FSAA is causing significant slowdowns only when extremely old (think 10+ year old non-dx9 hardware) and slow hardware is used.
also, the resource overhaul pack will not change the requirements in any way, whatever performance change you see there, it's just in your head. but, as I always say, to each his own - run the game in whatever way you like. it's not like anyone is forcing you to use the patch. but do us a favor, do NOT proclaim that something is broken or useless when you have absolutely no idea how things work.
Your reply is disrespectful and condescending.
Read my posts again! I have
never said nor implied what you claim I have said!
You assume too much! That is the wrong part, as evident by the patch itself and your reply. I am sorry but Thief 2 is released in the year 2000.
You do change the requirements of the game significantly with your default settings. And another thing, each and every component of my machine is this year's model. I do not see why you believe that performance (when anti aliasing is turned on at a high level) is somehow
directly related to how new or old the underlying hardware is. After all there are much older machines, faster than mine in that (specific) respect.
As for your second statement about Intel's video cards being a joke and that "...slow hardware is used". Please enlighten me what is your criterion of a better video card. Mine is to have open source drivers,
which I can and have changed to meet the technical needs of the several (exactly 4) different operating systems that are on my machine (no virtualization involved).
Using a high/better performance video card to play a 13 year old game is the bad joke and I as I already said Black Mesa works just fine with high visual quality options selected and anti aliasing level of 2 (as you already know, your default is 8). Unless you prove otherwise, it is only
your standard to have anti aliasing turned on by default and
not some generic standard widely applied everywhere. And another thing, if you truly believe that turning anti aliasing on by default is the correct solution, then why does TFix bother to ask the user whether anti aliasing should be turned on or perhaps you will falsely claim that you are not one of the TFix maintainers?
You assume that my hardware is old or that I use an Intel video card. You are half wrong. However, the
hardware is irrelevant. Considering the fact that this is a 13 years old game and without some of the new features provided by v21 (which are by default off, if you install it manually) there is not a significant increase in system requirements! Even the removed limit of 1024 polygons at a given rendering frame is irrelevant, considering the fact that the original missions do not exceed those constraints anyway. The
tafferpatcher by default should not change the system requirements unless the user specifically asks for it via options (preferably presented during the installation of the patch).
I will repeat myself, the defaults of this patch are wrong (and at least one description of an install option)! Saying that I can change the settings and visual content later on defeats the purpose of using the patch. The only settings I should ever want to change are those present in the game menus. In this case digging through configuration files to change the settings is just wrong. There is a ton of other significantly more important things that should be known how to configure manually, games are not one of them. I play games for recreation, not for configuring text files no matter how easy and simple it might be. Paradoxically manually installing the v18 and v21 is the simpler solution, rather than installing tafferpatcher and then commenting out an option and manually deleting files.
Allow me to enlighten you. You have the right to believe and assume whatever you want and maintain the patch how you see fit, but I do not know what gives you the right to be disrespectful and condescending, especially when I am
not demanding anything. If you do not agree with any of my points, juts say so politely. Is it that hard? Assuming that you are correct that I am not smart, your very own reply proves that you are not better than me! I see that this community is unfriendly and incapable of tolerating other peopled's choices and opinions. In your very first sentence you prove that point, by positioning me at a low intellectual level. I do not intend to further feed someone's trolling/flame war ambitions. So do not even bother replying to my post, I won't further visit this thread nor this entire forum.
Thank you for your time.
voodoo47 on 1/12/2013 at 18:04
while my post was indeed slightly harsher than usual, I don't believe it was offending or disrespectful - actually, I think you are the disrespectful one here, dismissing all the hard work that went into TafferPatcher just because you are running an unsupported gpu (and yes, intel gpus don't qualify as "normal" graphics cards, because of their incomplete hardware features and broken drivers). and after seeing your "hardware is irrelevant" comment (and a bunch of others as well), I have to stand my ground firmly - you have no clue whatsoever (in this particular area).
anyway, if I understand correctly, you have you game running the way you want, so let's just end this with "TafferPatcher is everything 99% of T2 players will ever need. the remaining 1% not satisfied with what the patcher offers should feel free to set up their game in any way they see fit".
enjoy your game.
Cigam on 4/12/2013 at 07:38
You can't please all of the people all of the time. I was surprised that I had to manually edit a file to enable lightbloom after installing with TP, thinking that other people may play the game not even knowing that they were missing out on lightbloom.
I was thinking that in the modern age ALL graphics effects should be on by default, and manually switched off if desired.
DiMarzio on 4/12/2013 at 10:27
Not everybody likes bloom. Some just hate its glaziness and some just want to keep it to the original. So there are certainly many schools, not to mention about the type of bloom. I personally like to do it almost overboard but cut down saturation a bit. Bloom is just something which looks horrible in one's eyes AND gfx card while making it look like it should in someone else's. You just can't make any all-rounder setting that would fit all. Leaving it off is a good compromise IMO.
I agree that some people might play without it and not knowing about it. I think there should be more information about it and what all the variables do. And some people are just not used to tweak any settings so they might be put off if they have to do anything themselves. So a good guide would be handy.
Gore_Torn on 17/12/2013 at 03:23
I just installed Tafferpatcher successfully and it's working like a dream! One question though, I installed the visual effects but where do I adjust them (sorry I'm new to Tafferpatcher)? :erg:
I had my DDfix settings (before I installed Tafferpatcher) to where the bloom effects with lighting would trail like they did in Vanilla. :)
DiMarzio on 17/12/2013 at 09:01
You can change settings for bloom, anti-aliasing, FOV, mip-mapping, texture filtering, reverb and New Dark mantle, among others, in cam_ext.cfg. Search for bloom, or anything else.
Gore_Torn on 18/12/2013 at 02:59
Quote Posted by DiMarzio
You can change settings for bloom, anti-aliasing, FOV, mip-mapping, texture filtering, reverb and New Dark mantle, among others, in cam_ext.cfg. Search for bloom, or anything else.
I removed the ; to enable the bloom effects, saved the Cam_Ext and ran Thief 2 a few to test it out but I found a few problems.
#1 The bloom effects did not apply to the game.
#2 The light that is projected from lit Torches are not removed when doused with a water arrow.
A side note, the ambient lighting also is behaving stangely too. It seem that it isn't projecting like it would in Vanilla Thief 2.
SPECS:
Graphics Card: ATI Radeon 5830 1Gig
CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 850 @3.3Ghz
RAM: 4 Gigs of RAM.
OS: Windows 7 32bit
What settings should be changed to fix this? :)
Here's a few pics of what I am looking at, I believe it is a problem with rendering the world lighting/shadows.
Inline Image:
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/1903/ez4e.jpgInline Image:
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/4674/93f6.jpgInline Image:
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/4987/0nh6.jpgvoodoo47 on 18/12/2013 at 11:30
restart the mission, that should fix it.
