Poison Ivy on 22/11/2006 at 21:09
Quote Posted by Dr Sneak
'right' is meaningless in this case-artists have always used the sensual form of a woman to draw attention to their work. That will never stop-AMEN!:thumb: Besides if a female artist drew Garrett in a speedo-the guys on the forum wouldn't be offended because we'd be laughing too hard.:laff:
Gosh.... :wot: I don't even WANT to imagine that...:eek: :laff: :laff:
Lady Taffer on 22/11/2006 at 23:36
Why, exactly would we be laughing at a scantilly-clad Garrett and not this scantilly-clad mockery of Zaya?
You know, Dr. Sneak, I would get off the internet, but there's still billboards. . .and magazines, and tv, and movies and countless men on the street staring at me and other women, following them around thinking it's their right to make comments on womens' bodies and letting them know in every way possible that they're just walking sexholes to them. . .and a billion other ways in which women are unwillingly objectified.
You know, Dr. Sneak. . I can't exactly get off the internet and be free of it, because sexism is EVERYWHERE, so forgive me if I'm a little disgruntled, but I believe in trying to point out the problem and change it instead of running from it, 'cause there's really nowhere to run to.
Jeshibu on 22/11/2006 at 23:56
Quote Posted by Lady Taffer
Why, exactly would we be laughing at a scantilly-clad Garrett and not this scantilly-clad mockery of Zaya?
You can laugh all you want, but you aren't right now. You're whining. Stop that.
Gorgonseye on 22/11/2006 at 23:57
Mmm, your right, you CAN'T run from sexism. But you can try to stop it, but, frankly, no mater what you do, you can't stop all of it. There will still be men who just see you as a tool for pleasure, and, well, there's little that can be done about it, sure, you can change a few, but not all of it. In the end though, we are bickering over a DRAWING OF A NON EXISTING PERSON. Let's just move on people........
Elentari on 23/11/2006 at 00:34
Ok, I can't help but step in here and insert my opinion on the matter.
On the one side, this picture is well done. The artwork is undeniably very well done. I do not see the anatomy issue with the arm that was mentioned, and the atmosphere of the docks/ship behind her is very evocative of the feel of the game world. Over all, it is a very good job.
That said, I agree with Lady Taffer in that I really do not care for this style of art. It has long annoyed me that the 'typical' fantasy art is that of scantily clad women in unrealistic situations for the theme of the picture. While this 'style' is a recognized style, I find it a bit frustrating. To me, when I look at a picture, I like to be pulled in to it. So I can 'be' there, or see what is happening in a picture.
This sort of picture, no matter how well done is not that way. You get stuck on the ridiculous aspects. They would not be riding a horse mostly naked, for several reasons from the ew to the ouch. They would not be going into battle with their chests unsupported and bared ('oh, yes, please, be my guest and cut them off, I won't mind because once I've completed my physically impossible moves, you'll be dead and I"ll be lighter!" *coughs*), never mind thighs, bellies and other areas that could be seriously injured by a single cut or shot. Or this one. Well, I don't have to point out the issues with this one, as they have already been pointed out.
As a woman, I do find them rather offensive, both for the illogical nature of these sort of picture and the 'focus' of it. On the other hand, men being what they are, its not likely to change in the next few hundred years, either. So I won't scream about it too much, so long as its not *my* man looking or painting such things. lol (Then again, the men can probably come back with how some women are about them. . .and from what I have seen from *some* women. . .I'd have to agree. . .people in general seriously need a new focus!)
But at the same time, the artist in me thinks men have it right. Women have very interesting forms. Graceful, beautiful, and in general the lines are smooth and appealing. The femenine form says a lot of different things from the. . .blockier male forms. (that sounds funny, but you artists will know what I mean. :)) As a drawer-in-training I far prefer drawing women to men. But I do prefer them to be less 'sexually' oriented as story oriented. Pictures that I can imagine myself in, perhaps. This style. . .sort of goes thunk and I cannot get into it, nor can I ever 'see' myself in their place.
Anyway, thats my somewhat rambly take on it.
Keep up the good work, flipation, and perhaps next time you can offer a picture that will not be quite so shocking? lol :laff: That is one way to check the pulse of these boards though!
Archaeon on 24/11/2006 at 00:13
Whoa.
First thing I think of when I see these posts.
The artwork is well done.
Sexist, but well done.
There is alot of sexism in this world and it's terrible. We're not sex objects - no one is. And it's horrendous to be treated as one.
Shit happens.
And you know what?
There should be at least ONE PLACE no one should have to worry about anything sex-related.
These forums.
So let's stop the debates. It's not worth it.
Flipation posted something of interest, but it's at the point where it's gone TOO FAR (broadhead arrows shooting out of breasts? come on.) and needs to be dropped.
We're not here to debate on sex, women, absurd outfits, or pinups.
These are the Thief forums, and these last few posts aren't even close to discussing the abovementioned.
Dr Sneak on 24/11/2006 at 00:32
Quote:
You know, Dr. Sneak, I would get off the internet, but there's still billboards. . .and magazines, and tv, and movies and countless men on the street staring at me and other women, following them around thinking it's their right to make comments on womens' bodies and letting them know in every way possible that they're just walking sexholes to them. . .and a billion other ways in which women are unwillingly objectified.
Some men might go around talking to you as though you're just an object, but not all of us do. Just because I enjoyed some sexy artwork doesn't mean I go around treating women like trash in real life. Women can and do pursue men they want either to get off or get something they want from them so sexism is a little more than just horny guys running wild. Men can also be objectified and treated like trash as well. Human beings arent telepaths that can look into the soul of a person-so we judge by appearances by nature.
Quote:
There is alot of sexism in this world and it's terrible. We're not sex objects - no one is. And it's horrendous to be treated as one.
Shit happens.
And you know what?
There should be at least ONE PLACE no one should have to worry about anything sex-related.
These forums.
So let's stop the debates. It's not worth it.
Flipation posted something of interest, but it's at the point where it's gone TOO FAR (broadhead arrows shooting out of breasts? come on.) and needs to be dropped.
Pardon me, but with some people slinging insults around implying that us guys are sexist morons just because we liked that piece of art-there will be a response. If people want political correctness, TTLG is the
wrong place to be.
Archaeon on 24/11/2006 at 00:56
I'm well aware that "there will be a response.". But it doesn't need to get into debates. This thread is for artwork, not debates on the outside world and other things that connect to that.
I'm not trying to offend anyone.
And I don't want to sling around "men are pigs" insults because I don't think they are.
I just don't think we need to expand anymore on this subject.
Jashin on 24/11/2006 at 02:35
In my last post I'd gone about it with light humor. Really that's the extent of it. People should really stop using this as an anchor for "sexism."
1. There are tons of women who look like this, believe it or not :erm:
2. Sex is not denigrating, not in all cases, it's often empowering for women. People have to live after all, practical living comes before high moral standards.
3. Those who don't take pleasure in being hollered at ought to speak for themselves and NOT all womankind; plenty of women enjoy the attention.
4. And really, there's no one absolute way to go about this. This is a capitalist economy where practically everything is for sale. If you work a job, you're selling your labor; if you take your cloth off for the camera, you're selling your looks. I think to outright condemn this is a disservice to yourself as it only works to highlight the sense of futility - this IS how it works. I've been in similar situations - different subject, similar nature. You can speak out about it, just gotta watch your tone of voice, focus on yourself and not let yourself be condescending. Upgrade that black-n-white model. It's definitely not as bad as Lady Taffer made it out to be.
