Springheel on 11/3/2013 at 13:17
The lightgem also communicates the effects of things like having weapons out, crouching, moving, etc, not just whether you're in the shadows or not. Trying to play without the lightgem in TDM is fun, but you can't necessarily tell whether you're perfectly hidden since you can't check to see how much of your body can actually fit into a given shadow. Suppose the shadow is only big enough to to cover half of you, but you're crouched...how visible are you? Without the lightgem it's very difficult to tell.
SubJeff on 11/3/2013 at 13:44
It shows your visibility and that is modified by a number of factors. There is no reason that The Cloak will not do the same thing.
chk772 on 11/3/2013 at 15:07
Quote Posted by jay pettitt
Light gem was just a feedback system. I'm not going to lose sleep if it's being done some other way.
Same here. After all it's more a matter of getting used to the way the A.I. "sees" in general. Don't think there's much of a need for any indication outside of visible/not visible at all. Chronicles of Riddick worked that way for example, and it did a good job at it.
Thirith on 11/3/2013 at 15:13
Quote Posted by chk772
Don't think there's much of a need for any indication outside of visible/not visible at all. Chronicles of Riddick worked that way for example, and it did a good job at it.
wasn't as much focused on delivering a stealth experience as
Thief. As others have said before, however the game handles visibility and however it chooses to tell players how visible they are, it shouldn't be an either/or thing. There should be a gradation; some dark corners should render the player almost invisible, whereas other hiding places might hide them from guards at the far end of a corridor, but if they come closer they'll notice that there's someone hiding.
chk772 on 11/3/2013 at 15:26
On the other hand, even with a gradation, you'd have to get used to when guards spot you. Plus it would be pretty generic, as it would be the exact same for any guard you meet, in reality some would probably pay more attention than others, some are more night blind than others ;) and stuff like that. Not sure if you would not be able to get used to it the same way you would get used to it with having that sort of indication. After all what matters more is how the A.I. handles it, and how it is simulated rather than what is displayed.
Springheel on 11/3/2013 at 15:34
Quote:
There is no reason that The Cloak will not do the same thing.
It's possible, but it would be a lot more difficult to read. We discussed darkening the edges of the screen as a possible indicator in the early stages of TDM, but decided it would be a bad idea for several reasons (not the least of which was that the lightgem is an iconic part of the original games).
For starters, if the 'tint' is transparent, then it will be substantially modified by your environment. That means you can't judge anything by just the level of darkness, since the background will make it look much darker or lighter. The only way to use it to communicate different levels would be using different colours (and IMO coloured tints would be highly distracting), or thickening the width of the tint.
Thickening the width is not a terribly good design choice either, since you would have to thicken it significantly enough for players to notice the difference between one stage and another (especially if it is partially transparent). Ultimately the thickest stage would be reducing how much of the world the player can see, which seems like a poor way to reward something the player is supposed to do regularly (hiding).
A lightgem, by comparison, takes up far less screen space. And making a lightgem that is less obtrusive than the one in T1/2 is not difficult. TDM's lightgem is not only darker and more subtle but also provides more information, by using the 'wings' on either side to indicate the player's crouch state.
Of course, T4 may only be using a binary system for hiding, which means they could use a very thin tint that is either on/off, and if they choose something that stands out, like a blue glow, it would be easy to see. Maybe you have to shift to Focus mode to see how hidden you are, which would mean it doesn't have to be onscreen all the time. I happen to think all three of those are fairly plausible options, but we'll have to wait and see.
Alic on 11/3/2013 at 17:11
I hope it's not a binary visible/invisible system. That was used in Splinter Cell Conviction and it made the game far too easy, as you would be invisible in the tiniest bit of shade. I can only imagine that this kind of system would either make the game too easy like that, or do the opposite and make it too hard by not being able to hide in places that aren't completely pitch black. Then again, I'm a layman, I know nothing of game design, perhaps it could work well.
SubJeff on 11/3/2013 at 18:56
Quote Posted by Springheel
stuff
I thought it might have several levels of tint that have subtle highlights at, for example, 25, 50, 75 and 100% invisibiliy. 25% it becomes visible, 50% its visible with a yellow or blue tinted edge, 75% its thicker or changes shape, 100% its thicker/shaped and also tinted.
Goldmoon Dawn on 11/3/2013 at 21:50
Eh, whats that you say, no Light Gem? Well, considering the original Light Gem concept was heavily inspired by Might and Magic, and even the graphical presentation itself was more or less lifted, and since Might and Magic died around the time of Deadly Shadow... perhaps it *is* time to move on! Bring on the new shroud of Cloak.
:ebil:
jtr7 on 11/3/2013 at 22:56
Quote Posted by Springheel
The lightgem also communicates the effects of things like having weapons out, crouching, moving, etc, not just whether you're in the shadows or not. Trying to play without the lightgem in TDM is fun, but you can't necessarily tell whether you're perfectly hidden since you can't check to see how much of your body can actually fit into a given shadow. Suppose the shadow is only big enough to to cover half of you, but you're crouched...how visible are you? Without the lightgem it's very difficult to tell.
Yep! The size of the weapon/equipment model and shade of the texture seem to be how the devs decided the additional visibility, and shaved off the player's advantage for using a weapon, as well as slowed movement, depending. Crouching or being near a wall gave the player less visibility. I love how much they thought of for the limits they had.
