Judith on 20/3/2013 at 10:50
Quote:
Because Dishonored is a semi-casual game, by design...whilst a true THIEF game isn't designed for that type of experience.
Dishonored was created with the same design principles as Thief, and by the staff who also worked on Thief and Deus Ex. The only difference is that the combat is more forgiving (due to occupation of main character), and the visibility is LOS-based. Other thing than that, you have the same degree of exploration, approach, emergent gameplay elements etc., and you can turn off all the visual aids and UI if you want. It has even more player freedom than Thief series, since there are a lot of restrictions that can be self-imposed, not forced by the designers.
Vivian on 20/3/2013 at 11:09
How in giant swinging blue balls is Dishonored 'semi-casual'? What the hell? Perspective! It's the thing that stops you walking into things. Jesus.
Captain Spandex on 20/3/2013 at 11:16
Quote Posted by heywood
Did you bother to play Dishonored? You can (and should) turn all the player aids off. If you do, the game doesn't hold your hand any more than Thief did and doesn't lead you around by the nose like SS2 did either. What's wrong with that?
I turned them all off and
still found the game to be insultingly easy.
The fact that most of the main entrances and exits to each mission happen to be located all of
20 yards from the target springs to mind.
Quote Posted by Judith
Dishonored was created with the same design principles as Thief, and by the staff who also worked on Thief and Deus Ex.
Well, we both know Harvey Smith worked on Deus Ex. He never worked on Thief, though. And it shows. And the games
do have radically different, if cosmetically interrelated, design principles.
So who - apart from that god-awful writer (I'm sorry, but even the most in-the-tank, flagrantly positive of Dishonored reviews acknowledge the story is M.I.A., so that isn't exactly a feather in the game's cap) - even worked at Looking Glass, let alone on Thief?
Vivian on 20/3/2013 at 11:20
Yeah, in some of them. Once you've found the target. And you've worked out how to kill them neatly.
Actually, no - thinking about it, in none of them. Where do you start the mission within 20 yards of the target? But yeah, I'll give you that the writing was bone. They also spunked money on big-name stars to read out their dull lines in a suitably vacant way, rather than hiring, I dunno, an actual writer who can write actual dialogue that sounds like humans would actually say it.
Judith on 20/3/2013 at 11:36
Quote Posted by Captain Spandex
Well, we both know Harvey Smith worked on Deus Ex. He never worked on Thief, though. And it shows. And the games
do have radically different, if cosmetically interrelated, design principles.
So who - apart from that god-awful writer (I'm sorry, but even the most in-the-tank, flagrantly positive of Dishonored reviews acknowledge the story is M.I.A., so that isn't exactly a feather in the game's cap) - even worked at Looking Glass, let alone on Thief?
Then
you don't know that he actually worked on TDS. And along with Randy Smith had contribution in stealth gameplay design, systemic design and emergent gameplay theories, check keynotes of these guys (GDC etc.). Technically he was working at Irrational and IonStorm then (
http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,6831/)
Renzatic on 20/3/2013 at 12:30
Quote Posted by Captain Spandex
So who even worked at Looking Glass, let alone on Thief?
I don't think anyone there worked at LGS or contributed to Thief 1 & 2 directly. They're mostly old ISA hands. Though Digital Nightfall and Purah worked on it, and that's gotta count for some creds around here.
jtr7 on 20/3/2013 at 14:34
Harvey Smith checked TDS out at some point, offered opinions and such, and got a special thanks.
Warren Spector did the same for TDP early on before he went of to ISA, and eventually became the top guy for TDS, with Randy directly below as Project Leader.
Austin Grossman worked on System Shock, gave input on TDS and got a special thanks, and was a writer on Dishonored.
Ricardo Bare did work on all the Deus Ex games, TDS (voice-actor only), and Dishonored.
Queue on 20/3/2013 at 15:59
Quote Posted by Kuuso
I have never considered any of the Thief games hard at all even on the highest difficulty, so I don't really care where the difficulty itself sets. I think all of the previous games have created nice spaces and situations, which you can approach in a way you like, which in turns stimulates the player to have fun. I don't see how this would change with the next installment.
If anything, I wish they all were a bit "harder".
Judith on 20/3/2013 at 16:37
Quote Posted by jtr7
Harvey Smith checked TDS out at some point, offered opinions and such, and got a special thanks.
Yeah, maybe it's just me, but I think there's a difference between "Special thanks" and "Additional Design", which is more than just "offering opinions and such" :rolleyes:
(
http://youtu.be/bpne45E2aqs?t=41s)
henke on 20/3/2013 at 16:53
Quote Posted by Kuuso
I have never considered any of the Thief games hard at all even on the highest difficulty
Not even the first time you played it? Not even in the Bonehoard when the zombies keep getting back up and you haven't figured out how to use the holy water yet? Come on man.
After you get a hang of it it's not very difficult though. There are defenitely more difficult stealth games out there. I'm playing Assassin's Creed 3 right now and trying to stealth takeover a fort for instance is difficult as hell and requires heaps of patience and planning.
