Justice01 on 11/3/2013 at 03:11
Saw this over at stealthy bastards, although it may have been taken from GI:
"The game communicates that Garrett is hidden by tinting the edges of the screen with darkness."
So, what do they have against the good 'ol light gem? It's the most intuitive visualization that I've seen for stealth In any game. Btw, the splinter cell light meters suck.
Azaran on 11/3/2013 at 03:14
I think it's one of those "even if it's not broken, let's fix it just to be different" situations. :erg:
Xorak on 11/3/2013 at 07:18
It seems like they're going to an on/off type of shadows mechanism. Either you're hidden and safe or you're not.
SubJeff on 11/3/2013 at 07:53
Quote Posted by Azaran
I think it's one of those "even if it's not broken, let's fix it just to be different" situations. :erg:
a. The light gem was often intrusive in that the screen was quite dark but it would be the brightest thing on screen. This was also true of the health shields in Thief 1 and 2, and is why there was a T2 "dimmer shields" mod and why health isn't always on screen in T3.
b. We don't know that the new system is linear so why not wait until we know for sure?
jay pettitt on 11/3/2013 at 08:33
Light gem was just a feedback system. I'm not going to lose sleep if it's being done some other way.
I kinda like the idea of doing it with stealth vignetting (Dishonored did similar, more or less) - but as someone else has mentioned in a different thread - you won't see it if the screen is dark - so who knows how it's all supposed to work.
Captain Spandex on 11/3/2013 at 08:41
Quote Posted by Xorak
It seems like they're going to an on/off type of shadows mechanism. Either you're hidden and safe or you're not.
We don't know that just yet.
But it does seem unlikely that it would be nuanced at all, considering how unlikely it is that a gamer would be willing to keep their eyes peeled on the margins of the screen to notice every shift in a shadow's gradation.
Binary stealth in Thief is a game-breaker. So I hope that isn't the route they're going.
demagogue on 11/3/2013 at 10:05
I don't mind the actual GUI as much as the mechanic, if it's a gradation vs a binary hidden/visible switch. The screen-dim sounded like a switch to me too; but I don't know.
In dark mod you have the ability to turn the light gem completely off, and I realized it's kind of fun to play that way. You have to sense the light yourself. But it works because the gem mechanic is still working behind the scenes.
heywood on 11/3/2013 at 10:18
Quote Posted by jay pettitt
Light gem was just a feedback system. I'm not going to lose sleep if it's being done some other way.
I kinda like the idea of doing it with stealth vignetting (Dishonored did similar, more or less) - but as someone else has mentioned in a different thread - you won't see it if the screen is dark - so who knows how it's all supposed to work.
When you're hiding in a dark shadow, most of the time you'll be looking out into an area with light. So I think you'll still be able to see the dark screen edges.
Personally, I'm hoping the lighting will be good enough to allow you to judge visibility with any aids. I always thought of the light gem as a necessary evil to make the game playable for people who don't have a good monitor and calibrated gamma.
SubJeff on 11/3/2013 at 10:45
My issue with the light gem was more when I was lit a little bit but looking into deep darkness. It was then the light gem that was the brightest thing on screen and as I played in the pitch black it was often quite jarring.
Same with the health shields.
jtr7 on 11/3/2013 at 10:54
Quote Posted by heywood
Personally, I'm hoping the lighting will be good enough to allow you to judge visibility with any aids. I always thought of the light gem as a necessary evil to make the game playable for people who don't have a good monitor and calibrated gamma.
It's even more necessary with very little of Garrett's model, especially in the Dark Engine, getting checked for light. It's not done realistically enough to judge well with the eyes alone. There are some nicely-lit areas that you can judge accurately, but there are hundreds of areas that don't make sense comparing what the gem shows to what the eyes can see. The eyes alone, in 1st-person, also cannot make up for not having peripheral vision in situations where you can't get a good look before moving into more or less shadow/light, and the gem is better at it, but an improved detection should fill in for that. I haven't played another game that might have something like it for comparison, but it seems to serve one perspective (1st-person or 3rd-person) over another, for how the player judges by sight, and how they are able to see light changes from 180° behind where the camera is pointing or not, sooner in 3P than 1P.
As long as the FOV isn't shrunk down, covered by overly opaque blackness, or any view-obstructing HUD for that matter, I can live with it, though it's an odd choice, having an effect that resembles a fainting spell. :p
If one screen edge was lighter than another, it would show which direction to avoid or move toward, but I wouldn't expect that. I'm just reminded of previous discussions over improving the relay of this information without peripheral vision, and especially if silhouette-detection is ever added in successfully without breaking playability.
