baeuchlein on 28/12/2024 at 16:16
What's so incredibly incredibly bad about the old builds, especially Ricebug's?
voodoo47 on 28/12/2024 at 18:01
well, there is a couple of problems, like;
- all maps are stripped, cannot edit properly
- updated skies are included, will not work properly with modern mod manager
- objects are a mess, some lack vhots
- some lights need to be changed to animlights to allow modding, some completely broken
- friggin' sausages shouldn't be stretched tomatoes/apples
so it kind of depends on your definition of incredibly bad.
either way, all resolved in the new builds, so no need to use the old ones.
lordhern on 28/12/2024 at 20:02
Quote Posted by voodoo47
well, there is a couple of problems, like;
- all maps are stripped, cannot edit properly
- updated skies are included, will not work properly with modern mod manager
- objects are a mess, some lack vhots
- some lights need to be changed to animlights to allow modding, some completely broken
- friggin' sausages shouldn't be stretched tomatoes/apples
so it kind of depends on your definition of incredibly bad.
either way, all resolved in the new builds, so no need to use the old ones.
I noticed the food items in ricebugs looked strange, but I didn't pick any up to see how they appear in inventory. - since my play style is extreme ghosting I generaly don't extinguish lights so I don't remember any lighting problems in his package.
voodoo47 on 28/12/2024 at 21:00
yeah, if you are playing ghost, then you would probably not notice most of the issues.
still, whoever wants to play T2x today, should just go for the up to date builds. no reason not to.
baeuchlein on 28/12/2024 at 23:10
Quote Posted by voodoo47
well, there is a couple of problems, like;
- all maps are stripped, cannot edit properly
- updated skies are included, will not work properly with modern mod manager
- objects are a mess, some lack vhots
- some lights need to be changed to animlights to allow modding, some completely broken
- friggin' sausages shouldn't be stretched tomatoes/apples
so it kind of depends on your definition of incredibly bad.
either way, all resolved in the new builds, so no need to use the old ones.
Stripped maps are not a problem for the player, so why should (s)he switch versions just to suit
you?
Updated skies don't work with a modern mod manager that was made
after T2X (including the two Ricebug builds)? Also not the player's fault - why don't
you make a better mod manager, then?
Same with lights that are a problem for modding - it's not the player's fault (or problem), at least as long as the lights work with a vanilla version of Thief 2 or T2 NewDark. There's enough issues coming up with Enhancement Packs and other similar mods, to which the answer often is: "Player, don't use any mod with this!" That's about the only thing I would hold the player guilty for - if he uses a mod, he should be aware that such things can interact badly with FMs.
And that sausage thing - well, unless you play with the EP2, the sausages look a
bit weird, not much more. Only the EP2-mutated tomato sausage looks
really out of place, as if being delivered straight from Chernobyl. A wonder these are not glowing in the dark, like certain mushrooms.
If, however, a player tries to use the new build, he might need to restart a mission because savegames might not be compatible. And then sometimes there is just
another newer build a few days later, and the player has to start a mission over
again because of this. Problems like these with other software that is updated faster than you can say "damn, not again" have made people ignore updates. Many of us don't like to spent more time updating things than actually using/playing them, so it would be better for people creating software (or Thief FM's) to keep updates a rare thing. Sometimes, updates are really needed, but if they're made for sausage look improvements and similar "important":rolleyes: things, they become annoying more than anything else.
Keep updates a rare thing, and you might get better cooperation from software users - which is equally important as the work of people who make these updates. Updates have to be actually
used to make any effect, just programming/preparing them is
not enough.
voodoo47 on 29/12/2024 at 00:53
it's been a decade since the Ricebug build. I don't think anyone is getting overwhelmed by continuous patching any time soon.
anyway, not sure what do you want me to say here - I made the very first update that allowed people to play T2x as a fan mission with 32bit relit levels (T2xFix), but this was not meant to become a base for further modding because it was stitched together way too quickly, yet everyone took it and did just that, causing all the problems of the original package to seep into all the builds. so I have (finally) fixed that - the current updated builds have those wrinkles ironed out, and are ready for potential future modding, they also work properly in a modern T2 install, you can load additional mods to improve your experience etc.
feel free to use them, or not use them. all the downloads are optional - heck, you can even download the original installer and get it running yourself if you have too much free time on you hands.
baeuchlein on 29/12/2024 at 03:46
I think we're not meant to understand each other. I'll go back to subtitle writing, then.
voodoo47 on 29/12/2024 at 09:36
I'll try to make it as simple as I can - this is what I should have put together all those years ago, so all I'm doing here is fixing my own mistakes. if that somehow makes you upset, then I don't think I can help you.
lesson learned here is - if you are working with Dark, don't take any shortcuts, don't do any duct tape, because if you do, it WILL come back to bite you in the rear later, and you will have to do it properly anyway.
