T2 Mission : "Les Paolis" updated to V. 1.5 (updated in 13-04-2025)

Cardia on 1/7/2019 at 08:35

Quote Posted by DarkMax

I'm surprised that after all these years no one has realized that these loot goals are made like this intentionally to make the missions artificially longer. People stop enjoying themselves when all they do is search every corner of the map only to meet the 98% loot goal, and forgetting why they're playing in the first place.

i have mentioned above that goal loot will be lowered in the next mission update, and no my intention is not to make the mission last longer, but to force players to search everything, to prevent them skipping some areas.

Unna Oertdottir on 1/7/2019 at 11:56

A reasonable loot goal would be

5000/8000/10000

13000/14000 is way too much. I found 5000 and jumped to the next mission.

Cardia on 1/7/2019 at 12:44

Quote Posted by Unna Oertdottir

A reasonable loot goal would be

5000/8000/10000

13000/14000 is way too much. I found 5000 and jumped to the next mission.

next update will be less 2000 for "normal", less 1500 for "hard" and less 1000 for "expert" which means you need to find at least one secret and 30% of hidden loot in expert. It's not just run the places without a closer look from time to time.

JarlFrank on 1/7/2019 at 13:43

Quote Posted by Cardia

But exactly this forcing the player to look everywhere is what makes high loot goals so off-putting. Thief is all about freedom of approach, people can play it their own way, they can explore maps freely however they want. There should be no forcing in a Thief FM. This is why forced ghosting objectives should only be on harder difficulties, not on normal, for example. Making the loot goal over 90% of all available loot means that players who aren't that good at finding loot, or just missed a couple of non-obvious places, will get frustrated after they completed everything, explored everywhere, and still have 1000 missing loot they just can't find.

It's not fun, it's frustrating.

And when your level is well-designed, people will explore every corner of it without being forced to, even if they already reached the loot goal.

And yes, forcing the player to go everywhere and preventing him from skipping a section is exactly what "making the mission last longer" means. Same effect: the player has to spend a longer time in the mission to complete it.

fortuni on 1/7/2019 at 14:28

Quote Posted by Unna Oertdottir

I found 5000 and jumped to the next mission.

You lasted that long?

Mind you I did spend a long time admiring the towns, they looked fabulous and I was really impressed with the build quality, texture and overall design, even if every building and town square was a bit on the boxy side. Cities and towns tend to grow organically over the years but these towns seemed rather as if they were planned by a centralised designer architect department which made the overall look a rather artificial, but a minor gripe bearing in mind the overall size and obvious love and attention you put into this campaign, so thank you for yet another exhausting loothunt.

Unna Oertdottir on 1/7/2019 at 14:48

Quote Posted by fortuni

You lasted that long?

I gave my very best :cheeky:

Well, the other visible objectives checked off. This is the only important part for me.

Yandros on 1/7/2019 at 16:18

Quote Posted by Cardia

When I decide what the loot goals will be in my missions, I consider ONLY loot which is not found in secrets. IMO a player should be able to fulfill the loot goal on Expert without finding ANY secrets and it should never be more than 80%. My rule of thumb is usually 50-60-70% or 50-65-80% of the total loot not in secrets for the loot goals, rounded up to the nearest 100. My objective is for the player to generally have already fulfilled the loot goal by the time they finish all the other objectives (or be very close), because backtracking and searching for missed loot once everything else is done is not fun, and is also something Garrett wouldn't bother to do most of the time.

Cheela on 1/7/2019 at 17:57

Hi!
Well, another great mission from you, Cardia, i love your works!
Not the buildings are beautiful but there are many well-hidden places as well. Really challenging!
Finished in 5 hours, loot 14173 out of 15317 secrets 5/6...
i found the loot hunting part extreme hard - as it was extreme hard in FTM mission as well (i even had to skip that mission because of missing loot)

So i have 4 questions if anyone could help in them:
- i picked up some victrolas with a stange sound after the action. Is there something to do with them?
- can the wall top be visited above the main gate of Pauli castle?
- there is a guard patrolling on the top of the ambassador's house (where the diary of Jean Francois was found), can i access that area somehow? I found a building nearby with a ladder, but it can't be climbed.
- i have found only 5 secrets :( where is the last one?
(loot behind 2 paintings, ventillation shaft, at the house of the unhappiest wife in that city, and that helmet)

I made the gameplay for myself very difficult because i realized after ca 2 hours that there are ropeable decorations on the walls, i spent that 2 hours with trying to climb rooftops without rope arrows, ehh...

Thank you, i loved this beautiful first mission, now heading to the second part.

Cardia on 1/7/2019 at 18:47

please for those who are having difficult looting the mission wait for the next update which will be more accessible for looting. After so many people complaining about loot i guess i have also to lower the loot goal in my previous missions as well.

Hi Cheela, thank you for the kind words and for playing this one.

-About the victrola key sound is to indicate you have found a place with loot
-No, the top part of Paoli's Castle can't be visited
-the rooftop of the ambassador's Residence cannot be explored, the ladder you mention cannot be used
-secret's locations:
maybe it's this you're missing? (https://i.postimg.cc/RZV1QhGP/dump117.png)

(https://i.postimg.cc/BQhH0Ctk/dump113.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/90Q08vPM/dump116.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/8Cg5QFdx/dump119.png)

Cheela i´m really sorry for the looting goal, if you want you can wait for the next updated version which i will lower drastically the loot amount required.

Unna Oertdottir on 1/7/2019 at 19:13

You want to update the mission?
Then
-rework the lights. Every light needs a radius. The radius must not be infinite. 30-50 is enough. Players are complaining about bad shadows. That's also important for performance since there are hundreds of lights in this mission which have endless radius.
-rework the room brushes. Many room brushes inside room brushes. This doesn't work.