Unkillable Cat on 15/6/2010 at 03:23
I have just finished completing all four missions, and this set of missions leaves me torn.
(Warning: Mild spoilers ahead.)
The absolute No. 1 reason to play "When Still" is because it goes for the psychological thriller/horror with a slow build-up, and succeeds admirably at that, even reaching Shalebridge Cradle levels at times. But for every good thing this set of missions accomplishes, it also manages to make a mistake, which ultimately leaves this somewhere muddling about in the middle.
The architecture is plausible, the manor in the first mission, the sewers/plant in the second and the abbey in the third, they all feel real and not plagued by "gameplay calls for the house to be built this way" design. However, there are places in the sewers/plant that give me exactly this feeling. Deliberately stacked crates blocking doorways, boarded-up doors, an invisible barrier preventing me from reaching a passage that piqued my interest.
Another point of fault that can be aimed at the architecture is that it all looks the same. You could show a bunch of screenshots from the first three missions and people will run into problems telling them apart. All the places look alike. Only the fourth mission manages to offer something new and different. Part of this is due to your decision to use hi-res textures for everything, but surely the abbey could have had a different base colour than the manor?
But if there is one real point of complaint about the mission layout, then it is their maze-like design. Having it in one mission is not a problem, but in 3 out of 4? It gets weary going through yet another room only to find a single piece of loot in it. You cannot imagine my relief when "The Mystery" started and I saw that it was not going to be another set of identical-looking rooms connected together. In all fairness, I think you could propably have created smaller maps, and made better use of each room, without losing any of the atmosphere.
BTW I love the crypt in the abbey. It is beautiful, well-designed and creepy all at the same time.
It took me a while to notice how well you use lighting, mainly because you do it so well that it felt natural. It wasn't until someone pointed it out here on TLLG that I started to really see it and appreciate it. The only thing that puts a minor damp on it is, again, the hi-res textures and their flaw in letting that "ambient glare" shine through objects. The walltorch behind the bookcase in Samuel's private library is a great example of this flaw. But it's a minor issue, and not even your fault. Another detraction for me, graphics-wise, is that almost all of the loot is hideously ugly in the hi-res textures you use.
You also use ambient sound to good effect. Shalebridge Cradle is clearly a huge influence here which is a good thing. No complaints from me on the sound side.
The meat and potatoes of this FM is the story, and while it is obvious that a lot of effort has gone into it, I can't help but notice two things that drag it down; how roughly the story is cut in places and how similar and uninteresting all the main characters are. After completing all four missions I can see what you're trying to tell us, but there are huge gaps in there. Why is Area C in the water purification plant like it is? How come loads of guards suddenly appear in it when you find the vital plot-item in there, when an earlier readable mentioned that the guards would rather do anything else than enter it? Why spend most of the readables in the first mission talking about St. Erasmo/Erasmus Island, when it plays absolutely no importance to the plot? Where does this Hammerite curse play into things? Why mix Christianity into all of this? As far as I can see it does nothing but confuse us and muddle the story. Why did we need to see St. Mary's both as it is, and both as it was? Why give us two endings to choose from?
You're trying to spin a tale of tragedy, loss, deception and...something, but the weave feels kinda thin to me, like a soap opera of sorts. I'll admit this FM may have caught me at a bad time, but I felt absolutely nothing while playing through it. No empathy or sympathy for the characters as their motives were unclear. You set a brilliant stage here, but I kept waiting and waiting for something to happen...which it never did. Too much effort is spent on inconsequential parts of the story, while the main elements get overlooked.
You are just a few steps from something truly brilliant here, but it looks to me like you've lost sight of either the endgoal or the big picture. You have a solid foundation of a story here, but yet somehow manage to tell it in both an odd and erratic manner, and without me ever even meeting any of the main characters. It feels like I'm beta-testing this FM, not playing a finished product.
Anyway, I'm tired and need sleep. The "tl:dr" version of my post is that you should be proud of your FM, but a lack of fine-tuning and polish is what's keeping it from being something extraordinary.
(As for actual, real-life errors, I found only two. I found a single typo somewhere that I can't even remember where was anymore, and then there's...whatshisname. A-something. The guy in the first mission that's there to see Lelder about buying the plant. Anyway, the error is that his last name is both referred to as being "Hook" and "Hood". Hood in a readable, while "Hook" is used on the body itself.)
Nightwalker on 16/6/2010 at 01:38
I'm stuck even after reading this thread. *sigh* I probably missed something obvious but where is the key to unlock the window by the church? I think that's where I need to go next as I only have the objective to find out what happened to the 2 hammerites plus the exit objective left to complete.
Unkillable Cat on 16/6/2010 at 01:53
Do you mean the window that gets you into Father Joe's office?
I picked that open with the lockpicks.
bjack on 16/6/2010 at 03:47
To the author and team, thank you for this FM. I just completed it.
Question: in mission 4, can you get into the hut with the huge fiery hole at the top and no doors? I tried all sorts of rope arrows and climbing the roof, but no dice. This is not the hut with the lattice between huts either. It almost looks like a volcano hut :)
I enjoyed the 4 missions very much. I came across a few issues, none of which were deal breakers. :cheeky: These are just nit-picks on an otherwise great FM.
Geting Stuck on Objects - T2 has a few of these, but this FM felt like it has more. It must be a bug in the engine that is hard to work around... I got stuck on edges/corners of walls and rocks a lot. All I could do is spin. No jumping or fore/aft- front/back. I had to reload so many times that I started to avoid hugging walls and rocks/boxes for shadows.
Inventory Loss Between Missions - I understand why this is done for some missions, but why inventory reduction for just walking through a door/etc? The next mission starts in the same place as the last ended... Did the ghost of Karras steal my stuff? :eek: The worse was between missions 3 and 4. I had a boat load of goodies, then almost nothing. I try to save my stash of weapons and potions for a rainy day, hoping they will make it to the next mission. Other FMs do drop inventory, but usually because of time lags, travel, and/or for some valid reason. Oh well... I still played on :)
Jumps/Mounts - Some of the mounting, jumping, and climbing seemed inconsistant, Sometimes I could mount 10 foot high walls, jump across what looked like 15ft or more gaps, and run up very steep inclines. Other times I was not able to jump onto or over a 2 foot high box/fence/crypt, Jump across 5 feet of gap, or climb some roofs. I kept at it and got to where I wanted, but it was a chore sometimes.
Thanks,
BJack
bob_doe_nz on 16/6/2010 at 04:58
Quote Posted by bjack
Question: in mission 4, can you get into the hut
with the huge fiery hole at the top and no doors? I tried all sorts of rope arrows and climbing the roof, but no dice. This is not the hut with the lattice between huts either. It almost looks like a volcano hut :) Yes you can. There isn't anything there though.
Nightwalker on 16/6/2010 at 14:10
Well, for heaven's sake! :tsktsk::o Thanks, Unkillable Cat. I tried to pick that several times but got no sounds, etc. I wasn't bright enough to jump up onto the windowsill though. I KNEW it would be something stupid. :laff:
ManicMan on 16/6/2010 at 16:17
great 4 Mission Campaign. It seams really well done. I will comment that you can see the Thief DS references and influences. I must say i did find the four mission a bit smaller and alot more simple then the other 3, but that's not bad, it's still a great campaign.
Of course, Spoiler time for a couple of small things:
Maybe another week needed in bug checking cause on the first mission, as you enter via the back door, there is like a crypt outhouse which.. seamed to float a few points from the ground.
I must admit to getting a bit confuse over the gender of the kid.. I thought female from the dolly, the name and I'm sure a few references, but then at lest mission 4 (i think maybe mission 3 as well) say it was a HE which.. well.. confused me a bit, but was never too much of a problem
When was this set? The Cradle was meant to have been abandoned for a long time. From the look at age of drept, i would guess at lest 20 years, maybe 30 and it appear to be pretty well known as a haunted house, yet the wife believed her kid was taken there and was still there? I'm not quite sure (can't remember the dates) of how long the kid has been dead but i don't think it was more then 10 years...
Sorry for them little bits of nick picking.. maybe if i made a big mistake and someone can explain, that will help me alot ^_^ Either way, Great missions and.. well, isn't this kinda your first release? if so, amazingly good for it!
bjack on 16/6/2010 at 17:00
Quote Posted by bob_doe_nz
Yes you can. There isn't anything there though.
Thanks :)
When I complete a game, sometimes I like to go back and try to get into those nearly impossible spots. For instance, in mission 4, I
tried crossing the 3 wood planks in the orphanage with a series of rope arrows and got across the trap. It was a dead end, but fun to get there. Gloria Creep on 17/6/2010 at 02:35
Thanks to Nightshifter I'm able to play T2 missions again. I had a huge problem on my PC. Never mind.
I need some direct spoiler please: in part 1: How do I get up to the upper part of the library? f
This is a REALLY GREAT MISSION :thumb:
I really needed to be able to play this great mission now.
My mother died last monday.
I needed some time off from all thoughts .... and there's THIEF!!! again :thumb: :cool:
Hallelujah.
Praise the BUILDER and Nightshifter :cool:
Gloria Creep :angel:
Tannar on 17/6/2010 at 02:45
I'm sorry to hear about your mother, Gloria. :( My condolences.
Quote Posted by Gloria Creep
in part 1: How do I get up to the upper part of the library? fYou need to
get Lord Lelder's key from his bedroom. There are several ways to get to his bedroom, all require a rope arrow. Or, you can just rope arrow up from the first floor of the library but you will be limited in where you can go from there.