T2 FM: Thief II - The Golden Project - First City College (8-VII-09) - by Bulgarian_Taffer
Renault on 9/7/2009 at 14:22
I have to admit, I'm a bit confused by the concept of this mission. I have no problem with the mission itself, it's architecture, design, or gameplay. That part is fine.
What I don't get is this - a mission was built around one of the unreleased Thief2 Gold missions. In doing so,
-None of LGS' original concepts were used.
-There is no attempt to fit this mission into the Thief 2 timeline.
-The setting is a college/university, but instead of using the actual college mission that was available, the museum mission was used. :weird:
-The main character is not Garrett.
-Large portions of the original LGS base mission were rebuilt.
So basically, this mission has nothing to do with Thief 2 Gold, yet it is named The Golden Project, hinting that it somehow is connected to Thief 2 Gold.
I'm not saying the mission isn't good or shouldn't have been released, I just don't understand why it's being connected to Thief 2 Gold, or even why one of the unreleased Thief 2 Gold missions was even used as a base. :confused:
I can only hope that if another mission is released using the Slums mission ( or others), it has a little more connection to what LGS intended for Thief 2 Gold in the first place. I apologize if this all sounds harsh, but when Digi released these missions a few years back, it was a real gift to the community, and I don't think this is what anyone had in mind for a final product.
Bulgarian_Taffer on 9/7/2009 at 14:36
Hi, Brethren...
You said it right - this mission is not Thief II Gold anymore. It's different. None of the original concepts were used. That's why I decided to change the name. But how would people know this mission is based on one of the unfinished OMs? There had to be a hint somehow - "The Golden Project" looked appropriate to me. But the community will decide if it's a good name. I could have released it as "The Golden FM", "Golden Fan Mission", "Golden Community Project. It just had to include the word "gold" or a derivative.
As for the last one:
Quote:
I apologize if this all sounds harsh, but when Digi released these missions a few years back, it was a real gift to the community, and I don't think this is what anyone had in mind for a final product.
Do you wish to say that DromEdders have no right to remake these missions according to their own interpretation and they have to follow strictly the original concept of LGS or the original team ( (
http://thiefmissions.com/thief2gold/missions.htm) )?
Did you expect something else?
Quote:
-Large portions of the original LGS base mission were rebuilt.
This is quite true. There's only one room kept intact - the closet without a door (next to the chapel).
And one final question: Did you enjoy the mission and did you like it?
Renault on 9/7/2009 at 16:14
Quote Posted by Bulgarian_Taffer
Do you wish to say that DromEdders have no right to remake these missions according to their own interpretation and they have to follow strictly the original concept of LGS or the original team ( (
http://thiefmissions.com/thief2gold/missions.htm) )?
Did you expect something else?
This is quite true. There's only one room kept intact - the closet without a door (next to the chapel).
And one final question: Did you enjoy the mission and did you like it?
When Digi released these missions a few years back from one of the original LGS developers, the intention was for someone to finish the missions off the way they were intended to be. Other than that, I can't see any reason to use one of the missions as a base. You certainly have the right to do it, but why bother if you're just going to use it for something completely unrelated (especially if all that is left of the original base mission is a closet!)? It's interesting that you say "according to their own interpretation" when you really haven't tried to interpret anything, at least in regards to the original T2 Gold project. So yes, I expected something else, and I'm sure I'm not alone here.
As far as whether I enjoyed the mission, that's irrelevant to the conversation really, but I'm still playing it. I only went in briefly to look around, and was surprised to see the real college mission wasn't even used.
Bulgarian_Taffer on 9/7/2009 at 16:35
Look. It was stated from the very beginning that the mission I'm going to create will be very, very different:
(
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108073&highlight=dromed+license&page=8)
Quote:
I have my own vision for the College and I'm going to follow it. So don't expect a Looking Glass type mission. And most definitely, my mission will not be a daylight mission.
After I wrote that nobody complained. You started to complain after I released the mission.
Then I wrote:
Quote:
Thus, I don't think that "Thief Gold Fan Mission Project" is a suitable name anymore.
This is why I changed the name to "Thief: The Golden Project. Mission 1: First City College".
And finally I asked if there are any legal issues:
Quote:
There are none. If you read the dromed license agreement, it basically states that Looking Glass Studios owns your FMs
After I read that, I decided I have the right to do so. Nobody complained. Yes, there was a mistake - I downloaded the Museum mission and somehow used this one as a base. The mistake was discovered later, but even now there are exhibition rooms: Look at the Hammerite section, The section with Masks and the section with the Robot parts.
After all, I'm amazed that you, Brethren, complain about this. I'm also sorry to be too harsh, but you were the one who left the project early, then rejoined, then took the project in your own hands, then nothing happened. Months, if not years have passed since then. I wonder if you have the right to judge me for what I did. Plus, I remember very well that you offered your help with writing the plot. It was March or April. Then you disappeared without a trace.
I appreciate greatly the criticism of intruder, Staith Mia and the others who briefly said what they didn't like in the mission. I appreciate also the praise of the other people. As for the ones that joined and after a few days flaked out - your criticism has no credibility. Sorry.
242 on 9/7/2009 at 17:50
From the very beginning it was pretty obvious one shouldn't expect quality of, let's say, Digital Nightfall's or Purah's teams from the project. Bulgarian Taffer was one of the very few persons who wanted to realize the project, it's unfair to criticize him as if got exclusive rights for it and didn't keep his word. No one objects against creating another FM based on the assets, more true to original etc.
Bulgarian_Taffer on 9/7/2009 at 17:57
Quote:
as if got exclusive rights for it and didn't keep his word.
... exactly. There could be 10, 15, 20 more FMs based on the unfinished OMs.
As for the quality - the COSAS team does a great job, but years pass before we see the FMs. Many, many years. Same goes with projects like the Hammerite Imperium, DrK FMs. But nobody believes both projects will be completed anytime soon, if not at all?
This mission has been completed in four months. I think it's the best that can be acheived during this time (minus real life, minus exams, minus graduation).
Thor on 9/7/2009 at 19:24
Well, I agree - nice achievement in 4 months.
If real life rushed you and You couldn't have spared another month or so for it, then good job.
CoSaS and DrKs missions did have a better quality, naturally, but they also took a longer time to develop. This was a fairly straightforward, not so hard mission. Maybe that was one of the elements that fun requires (no frustrations), so, um, yeah, I stand by what I said in my first reply - it was fun for me and reminded a bit of an OM (though the College idea itself didn't).
Now I feel weird saying these things, since I've made nothing myself. Maybe I should stay quiet.
Bulgarian_Taffer on 9/7/2009 at 19:33
Thanks, friend.
As I said - I'm open to both positive AND negative criticism.
But I can't accept negative criticism for these who entered the project with great enthusiasm just to leave it later without a trace. They just don't have the moral right to do so. The missions were released in 2006, yet my FM is the first based on T2G that came out. Three years are very much for a game community!
As for my team - they may not be professionals, but they were very enthusiastic about the FM. I'll keep them as much as possible, because they have passion in their hearts and love the series.
intruder on 9/7/2009 at 19:43
@Thor02:
All FM creators have a real life with school, exams, a job, family, friends and partners they want to spend time with :thumb:
And why shouldn't you be able to "judge" missions only because you didn't build one yourself? As long as you give reasons and say it in an appropriate way, there shouldn't be any problems.
Tolknaz on 9/7/2009 at 19:47
Being a longtime lurker, but not really busy poster :P, i did not want to say anything at first. It is obvious, that you mean well, and are a good dromeder to boot, but honestly having even a hint of this mission being a progeny of lgs thief 2 gold somehow screams "wrong" to me and lots of others as i now see. It is as far from negative critique as you can get, really. It is a direct result of what you are suggesting with the project name.