Ravenus1 on 2/1/2023 at 23:06
I finished the mission clocking in 6h 38 min on expert no knockouts . I was stuck for awhile on the earth and air stone. I figure that's down to me not paying close enough attention,
than it being difficult. This cries for another mission revisit with maybe some of the roof top, basement and underwater areas with a little more to do.
Incidentally, I finished with 10776 loot , locks picked 28, secrets 9/15 and pockets picked " 27 / 10" not sure if anyone else got that lol
Excellent work overall.
Vortex85 on 3/1/2023 at 01:44
Quote Posted by Samantha1
This is a beautiful looking mission (the big castle - wow!) and the story is rather good aswell, but for the gameplay I have to say I didn´t enjoy it much. Several times I nearly dropped it and I was really glad when it ended. The darkness area for example was way too forced. If you have a speed potion then okay, but if you don´t have one cause you used it up before (like me), all you can do is try to get out as fast as you can. Not really enjoyable. Same with the light area with the metal boy and the balls shooting at you. Or the two metal guys. Too much forced combat. Good parts imo were the wind area, the fire area and the earth area. My favourite was the water area, especially with the book hinting on it.
A nice bonus objective could have been to save captain downwinder. Several times I tried to save him, but I realized he must be dead since it was just not possible. Very sorry downwinder! :D
Sorry you felt that way, though the armored knights in throne room are ghost-able, as well as the entire light stone room with metal boy and elementals there. There are 2 parts you are forced to run, the last bit of the last hall of dark stone and leaving the Downwinder section.
I knew I may receive flack for those 2 parts but when testing it was just more thrilling to have to run out or face certain death while stealth in those parts felt underwhelming for the experience that I was trying to give the player in those few seconds. The other parts you mentioned I spent hours ensuring you could go completely undetected.
I do understand the feeling of being glad it's over. I had that on some of my test play throughs. I even said “man, this mission is long” to my testers in the middle of testing myself, lol. While recently I have been just soaking up the experience and actually completed a play through in under an hour lol. But I definitely can sympathize with the feeling especially on a first-time play. It is true that you are forced to do a lot of things to complete it, much more than I originally envisioned but it just sort of evolved that way in development... so yeah, I get it.
Thanks for the feedback though!
That also goes to Ravenus1 and Stingm. Thank you for taking the time to give your feedback here. :thumb:
Samantha1 on 3/1/2023 at 15:50
I see :) Well, maybe for the future you can make it so the player can choose.
Quote:
I knew I may receive flack for those 2 parts but when testing it was just more thrilling to have to run out or face certain death while stealth in those parts felt underwhelming for the experience that I was trying to give the player in those few seconds.
This does not work for every player, especially in a stealth game that thief is. There are many players like me, that enjoy the most the thrill of stealth, riddles and thinking. Giving the player experience of adrenalin, creep & having to run as fast as possible or even combat, that´s not sth. to enjoy for everyone. Often authors leave the choice to the players: Combat/Run or stealth, which is very enjoyable.
I have no idea how to ghost the two mechs or the mech boy and the elementals though. There was so much light that they immediately saw me whenever I just entered.
Vortex85 on 3/1/2023 at 16:37
Quote Posted by Samantha1
I see :) Well, maybe for the future you can make it so the player can choose.
This does not work for every player, especially in a stealth game that thief is. There are many players like me, that enjoy the most the thrill of stealth, riddles and thinking. Giving the player experience of adrenalin, creep & having to run as fast as possible or even combat, that´s not sth. to enjoy for everyone. Often authors leave the choice to the players: Combat/Run or stealth, which is very enjoyable.
I have no idea how to ghost the two mechs or the mech boy and the elementals though. There was so much light that they immediately saw me whenever I just entered.
For anyone interested in ghosting I figure I'll share...NOTE video is SPOILERS!
Here is one part of ghost I recorded a few weeks ago during testing, however, its easier now with the angel physical dimensions allowing easier mantle than seen here on video. I can't record currently but I'll post the other examples later. Note this assumes you used
rope arrow to enter room through balcony and not brute force through guards with double doors.[video=youtube_share;j7wdiZ931ok]https://youtu.be/j7wdiZ931ok[/video]
Also note I tested the mission with hardcore ghosters who only ghost missions in Thief. One had a lot of fun stacking crates in front of the
rooms where haunts spawn in dark stone room to get through as undetected as possible and no need to run out.
Vortex85 on 3/1/2023 at 17:28
Quick demo for part 2 in same room... sorry for background sound, had microphone recording room noise... but I've done in game and my testers have done this with no equipment though I prefer moss arrows.
[video=youtube;Q0w_LLZ8DWw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0w_LLZ8DWw[/video]
lordhern on 3/1/2023 at 18:35
Quote Posted by Samantha1
This is a beautiful looking mission (the big castle - wow!) and the story is rather good aswell, but for the gameplay I have to say I didn´t enjoy it much. Several times I nearly dropped it and I was really glad when it ended. The darkness area for example was way too forced. If you have a speed potion then okay, but if you don´t have one cause you used it up before (like me), all you can do is try to get out as fast as you can. Not really enjoyable. Same with the light area with the metal boy and the balls shooting at you. Or the two metal guys. Too much forced combat. Good parts imo were the wind area, the fire area and the earth area. My favourite was the water area, especially with the book hinting on it.
A nice bonus objective could have been to save captain downwinder. Several times I tried to save him, but I realized he must be dead since it was just not possible. Very sorry downwinder! :D
I was able to ghost the "two metal guys" and I also ghosted the light area.
PM me if you would like to know how I walked (not run) out of the darkness area w/o damage.I didn't find any area with forced combat at all - just a few areas where strafe running is good enough.
fortuni on 3/1/2023 at 18:39
Good luck with the forced combat vs the mechanical cherub. :cheeky:
lordhern on 3/1/2023 at 18:52
Quote Posted by Vortex85
... One had a lot of fun stacking crates in front of the
rooms where haunts spawn in dark stone room to get through as undetected as possible and no need to run out.
:cheeky:
Wormrat on 3/1/2023 at 20:10
Hard, 10729 loot, 10 secrets. Took me about four and half hours, but several more were spent experimenting. A wonderful FM and an unexpected holiday treat.
This mission is basically my ideal style. One big building with a clear objective, and it's up to me to carve a path and figure out how to access the different sub-areas as I make my way upward. Each major floor felt like its own "level" so by the end it was like I had played through an entire videogame, not just one mission! I love it when a structure is so big that I can really feel like I'm deep inside it. Emerging from the basement onto the ground floor with all the marble and high ceilings, and the fountain bubbling nearby... a very dreamlike feeling. And as I ascended, the views from the windows and balconies reminded me that yeah, this is all one big castle.
I want to praise all the smaller pieces of this mission too. Good landmarks, meaningful details, clear hints and side objectives, cool stashes of loot and equipment (took me a while to notice the arrows over the display cases on the first floor), and little touches like the spooky bit in the library. Rock-solid, classic game design. I enjoyed all of the stone challenge areas and thought they were creative, and liked that I could play a bit frantically (sloppily?) in some of them without messing up the rest of the mission, because they were compartmentalized. I did need a hint for how to open the sword's hiding place. I searched that room a couple times before coming to the thread, but wasn't positive I was on the right track despite the readables.
Vortex85 on 4/1/2023 at 01:24
Quote Posted by Wormrat
Hard, 10729 loot, 10 secrets. Took me about four and half hours, but several more were spent experimenting. A wonderful FM and an unexpected holiday treat.
This mission is basically my ideal style. One big building with a clear objective, and it's up to me to carve a path and figure out how to access the different sub-areas as I make my way upward. Each major floor felt like its own "level" so by the end it was like I had played through an entire videogame, not just one mission! I love it when a structure is so big that I can really feel like I'm deep inside it. Emerging from the basement onto the ground floor with
all the marble and high ceilings, and the fountain bubbling nearby... a very dreamlike feeling. And as I ascended, the views from the windows and balconies reminded me that yeah, this is all one big castle.
I want to praise all the smaller pieces of this mission too. Good landmarks, meaningful details, clear hints and side objectives, cool stashes of loot and equipment (took me a while to notice
the arrows over the display cases on the first floor), and little touches like
the spooky bit in the library. Rock-solid, classic game design. I enjoyed all of the
stone challenge areas and thought they were creative, and liked that I could play a bit frantically (sloppily?) in some of them without messing up the rest of the mission, because they were compartmentalized. I did need a hint for how to open
the sword's hiding place. I searched that room a couple times before coming to the thread, but wasn't positive I was on the right track despite the readables.
Nice! So glad you found this mission to be "your style". I had a similar feeling when making it as it is very much my style as well. Very cool details about the dreamlike ascension from the basement. I like that! :thumb:
