Niborius on 17/7/2021 at 09:11
Cool to see you're still around! :)
Do you still make missions?
Hit Deity on 28/12/2022 at 17:13
Garrett makes no footstep sounds for me in this FM. Guessing that's not normal.
All other AIs make normal footstep sounds though. Weird.
Hit Deity on 28/12/2022 at 17:34
Ok, figured out what the cause was. I'm using AngelLoader, and over on the right there's a box with override options:
Statitistics Edit FM Comment Tags.. etc
Under the Mods tab, I can uncheck the T2FMDML option, leaving all others enabled, and the game plays fine now.
baeuchlein on 29/12/2022 at 07:12
Once again, like with "Ominous Bequest" and "Broken Triad", if I place the DML fix for "Rowena's Curse" in T2FMDML, I get the same problem as you (here: no footstep sounds from Garrett, no sounds once he lands even on the metal grate in the ground near the starting point). Removing that DML fix (and nothing else) again makes the sounds reappear. FM loader: FMSel.
vfig on 29/12/2022 at 10:12
Edit: okay, so my inference that T2FMDML's dmls being the problem was incorrect. thanks for the correction, fortuni!
Original post:
does that mean some of the dmls in T2FMDML are not using fingerprints? so theyre getting loaded for every mission and thus making essentially arbitrary changes to arbitrary objects and archetypes?
its okay for a mission-specific dml to lack a fingerprint if it is put in the fms own directory so that it only loads for that mission. but any mission-specific dml thats in a bundle like T2FMDML or TFix needs to have a fingerprint.
otherwise youre adding more problems than youre fixing.
fortuni on 29/12/2022 at 10:31
All dml's in the FMDML package are fingerprinted and fingerprinted dml's will not cause this issue, I'm guessing that if baeuchlein is correct about the dml for Rowena's Curse being the cause of this issue is that Hit Diety may have placed a manually made Rowena's Curse dml (or some other dml with a miss20 file) and placed it in his root Thief folder rather than his FMsel mission folder. If he or anyone else does that, when they uninstall that mission from FMsel or plays another mission the dml will not be removed from their root Thief folder, so if playing another mission with a miss20 file then the rogue dml will be loaded inadvertently.
Manually installed dml's must ONLY be placed in the FMsel mission folder.
I've sent Jax a PM about the situation and have suggested he needs to release an updated T2Fix/FMDML, the last update was 2 years ago and there must be 100-200 dml's waiting to be included in the package and once they are, and they have been fingerprinted, situations like this should be considerably less likely to occur, but the warning of not placing manually made dml's in any folder other than the FMsel mission folder stands.
Hit Deity on 29/12/2022 at 14:37
I think that's exactly what happened: I created the dml myself, made the text file, and placed it in the T2FMDML subdir at first. Later, I do remember moving it into my main Thief directory when trying to get it to work. This was before I had installed AngelLoader, and only had FMSel to work with.
Sorry about the confusion. I had forgotten some of those steps.
Jax64 on 30/12/2022 at 15:30
Just to clarify, these issues were almost certainly caused by placing an unfingerprinted DML in the T2FMDML mod folder or another high-priority location. All DMLs included in the T2FMDML package are fingerprinted so that the game selects only those intended for the loaded mission. Placing an unfingerprinted DML along with them will result in it being applied to every mission for which that DML is evaluated. This is a major problem since missions are likely to share the object IDs referenced in a DML. For example, applying the Rowena's Curse DML to Broken Triad will crash the game upon starting the mission because part of the DML involves setting up a few receptrons on a particular object. However, while the object ID to which one of the receptrons is added exists, the target does not, causing the crash. Some of the issues that this can cause are more subtle, however, as is the case with this mission.
This problem may not be obvious to all users, though there are not really any facilities offered by the game that can automatically prevent this from happening. Still, it may be prudent to at least include some sort of warning with the T2FMDML package.
chk772 on 23/12/2023 at 12:48
Quote Posted by Melan
taffedinthehead -- thanks, and...
the four valves are a red herringSo, it's not solvable? Racking my brain over it ATM. It's the last thing I have to do in the mission (after backtracking to it), and, I just don't get it.
chk772 on 23/12/2023 at 13:14
Ok, so, I guess it
is unsolvable, if I understand this right (Melan seems to like to talk in riddles ;)):
Quote Posted by Melan
Outright spoiler on the four valves puzzle:
it is (much like the entire "sewer" section) a red herring built by the Keepers in purpose to keep people away from the real entrance in the same room. Don't forget that Garrett says "This old thing has not worked in years..." once you have frobbed enough valves.
You know, I really liked this and Bad Debts, but, some of the stuff in it? Hmm... very unclear, to say the least. Well, at least, unlike Bad Debts, this was great to navigate.
