JonesCrusher on 12/2/2017 at 02:58
no I was in the wrong part of the factory,I was "down" below the pagan sewer hatch by the church....I had forgotten that the way to the machine was in the "Upper part"....as I saw it way back in the mission then forgot where it was....
I am all finished now thanks to that nudge to help me along......It truly was an awesome mission!!
and to the Author....."Thank you Stranger" :)
greenie2600 on 12/2/2017 at 03:23
I'm about ten minutes into this one. The architecture is gorgeous.
However, I've encountered several bugs so far:
* I've seen two NPCs that were frozen upright, arms outstretched (a woman and a sleeping guard).
* I've encountered two doors (a district gate and a sewer gate) which are invisible (but which I can't pass through).
greenie2600 on 12/2/2017 at 03:33
I also just encountered an urn floating above a nonexistent table, and (I think) some bits of geometry which weren't lit.
Aside from these issues, it really is a gorgeous mission!
slavatrumpevitch on 12/2/2017 at 04:21
One of the best missions I've played in a longgg time. Finished on expert in 3 and a half hours of game time (closer to 5 hours of total time), and found ~90% of the loot (still more work to do!). Absolutely gorgeous design, very immersive and stylistically consistent---nothing seemed out of place.
Everything felt very logical. Items, keys, readables, etc... all seemed to cross my path in the right order, despite the sandbox feel. That's one of the most impressive things. I never felt constrained by my environs, but also never seemed to get off the 'right' track (except for the one time I taffed about and found my way outside of the playing area ;) )
I never spent more than 4 or 5 minutes at a time feeling lost or confused. Managed to beat the whole thing without once feeling a need to consult the forums. This is somewhat of a rarity for me, with any mission that takes more than an hour. Typically I'll have to get a hint for one thing, maybe two. Not this time. No frustrations, no interminable key hunts, just hours of clean, thief-y fun!!!
Keep up the great work! I'll have to go back and play some of your older missions.
P.S. I loved all the optional side quests. Especially the way they all converged on a single treasure.
Tannar on 12/2/2017 at 06:31
Top notch mission, Nick! I finished in about 5 1/2 hours, with 7447 in loot. That was a long ride, and I loved every minute of it. Since it was such a long mission, it deserves a long critique. :cheeky: I cover a lot of ground, so I'm just going to put a spoiler cover over all of it rather that try to find all the spoilers.
The rooftop exploration was a lot of fun, and no matter how many times I went up there I never got tired of it. With the exception of Godbreaker's fourth mission, I haven't had that much fun rooftop hopping in a long time. The city is beautiful, the lighting is sublime; I love daylight missions at least as much as I love nighttime missions, and you really didn't disappoint on that score. The water in your missions is always impressive, and this was no exception. I loved the play of light on the water in the canal as it wended its way through the city, and I loved the water in the indoor fountains as well. So from an aesthetic point of view, I love what you did with the place. If I had any critique of that aspect, I'd have to say that the city seemed a bit too clean and sterile. I know you meant this to be a nice part of town, what with the bank, courthouse, legal offices, etc. But there was also a tavern and a few alleys that could have been a bit more rundown, as well as the warehouses and such. It's beautiful the way it is, but it might have felt a bit more lived in with some dirt and detritus here and there.
The only other thing I thought was missing was people. I like the ones that are there, and there are some memorable characters (which I really like), but I wish there had been a bit more life. I don't know what constraints you were under, but some people on the streets besides guards would have been nice, though I know that was explained away with the curfew. Still, more folks around and awake inside buildings (besides guards), would have helped bring it to life more.
I thought the puzzles were good for the most part. The mask puzzle was well done and I liked having to complete tasks to get the masks. Also, those are really nice mask objects. Did you make them? Also the animals for the festival? Generally I liked the puzzle in Faramund's place, but it felt a bit artificial, if I'm honest. I don't think that was a result of the concept, but more how you went about it. I didn't understand the need to have multiple notes, and have each appear only after you complete a task. To me, it would have made more sense if he had left her a note with instructions, and then the player would have just had to find all the ingredients and use them appropriately. The "treasure hunt" aspect of it is what felt artificial, because it didn't seem like a reasonable thing to do in that context. But maybe that's just me. I should say, however, that things like this don't really detract from my overall enjoyment of a mission. To me, they are just things you notice as you go along and might wish had been done a little differently. Still, maybe something to keep in mind.
I really liked finding the magpie nests, but I wish you had made that an objective. It would have been nice to know if I had found them all or not. :)
As Sly said earlier, those are some really well done sewers! I liked the architecture, textures and layout. And I really, really liked the rats! That was a nice bonus. However, I thought the fact that they were endlessly respawning was a detraction from their awesomeness. First, I just don't like endlessly respawning enemies. My personal view is that in general, in any game, it's a poor game device at best, and at worst it is used to cover a lack of imagination. And second, it just wasn't necessary here. The appearance of them in such numbers was sufficient to make the player squirm, believe me! But if the player wanted to wade in and take them all out, they should have been allowed to, to my way of thinking. I'm not sure what your intention was, but I'd be curious to know the reasoning was behind it. But again, this was certainly no deal breaker. After I had killed enough of them to notice that they kept respawning, I just ignored them and went on my way.
The only other issue I had anywhere was a minor niggle. I loved the electrified fence, but I didn't understand the reasoning behind putting that one short length of it on the wooden deck railing right as you exit that door. To me, that smacked a bit of trolling the player. No one coming through that door is going to expect there to be a live, electrified fence right there in a walkway where you are bound to bump into it, so the player is pretty likely to get burned there. But more to the point, it doesn't make sense for the inhabitants of the place, so it felt contrived just to injure the player.
So, I found a few things that seemed like they could have been executed a bit better, but truly overall this was an immensely enjoyable mission. None of those issues kept me from having a blast the whole time. I really didn't want the mission to end, and if that's not the mark of a great mission, I don't know what is. Thanks for bringing us this mission, and for all the hard work and inspiration that went into it. It's great fun, and I know I'll be replaying it in the future.
marbleman on 12/2/2017 at 08:03
Tannar, there is a bonus objective to find all nests :) I think there are 13 of them
Tannar on 12/2/2017 at 08:34
Ah, well, clearly I didn't find all of them. Thanks.
nicked on 12/2/2017 at 09:18
Melan - thanks for the feedback; a lot of good points made there. It was definitely intentional to have the beginning sections tighter and more linear and then have it open up later on. As for tricky ledges - it can be so difficult to judge what is hard or easy with a movement puzzle when you, as the author, know exactly how to do it! There were a fair few difficult-to-traverse ledges that were widened during testing, but I still wanted it to be a challenge. I'm glad you persevered and enjoyed the more open-ended city areas. Ultimately, despite this being my 10th (?) release, it's the first time I've ever completed a proper city streets/rooftops mission, so I almost felt like I was starting from square one in terms of design experience.
ticky - I can't speak for any other authors, but someone posting what they didn't like about the mission isn't gonna upset me or put me off making more. :D In a lot of ways, solid constructive criticism is far more valuable than straight-up praise (especially from expert city mission authors like Melan!).
john9818a & itllrun10s - the frobbable water foam is a weird bug that rings a faint bell from when I had a similar setup in Sturmdrang Peak. I can't remember if I ever worked out why it was happening - I'm sure it wasn't as simple as just making the objects FrobInert. Anyway, it's just a cosmetic bug and it won't break anything in the mission. :)
greenie2600 - this really sounds like it's not installed right. T-pose AI generally means the game hasn't loaded the default scripts. Are you using FMSel or Darkloader, and do you get the same issue in any other fan missions?
slavatrumpevitch - glad you enjoyed it and didn't get stuck - "Managed to beat the whole thing without once feeling a need to consult the forums." is about the highest praise I could hope for. :laff:
Tannar - Thanks for the feedback! More people is definitely a valid criticism; in hindsight I could probably have done away with the whole curfew idea and had the carnival stuff still going on. I was going for a sort-of austere, lonely atmosphere to fit with the clean, high-rent buildings, a "post-party, fun's over" kinda vibe. But I agree it can just come across a bit empty! I'm now imagining an alternate version where the Watch don't react to you unless you're above street level or actively breaking in somewhere, and there are crowds of drunk people everywhere - sort of like that New Orleans parade mission in Hitman Blood Money. The masks and papier mache animals were all models made by me, yes. For the respawning rats, I wanted there to be an unending tide of them, to try and maintain the horror. I personally think it would have lessened the impact if you could just completely clear the sewer of rats. Gameplay-wise, I can totally understand it becoming a frustration though. Also, the smaller electric fence was an unfortunate concession, in order to prevent the player being able to jump over the main electric fence from the wooden platform fence. I put a big sign on it to hopefully warn people before they electrocuted themselves.
nickie on 12/2/2017 at 10:22
Quote Posted by nicked
Strumdrang
Really? :)
I really liked the bubble bug. Kind of a shame when you fixed it.
john9818a on 12/2/2017 at 10:41
Quote Posted by Tannar
You say you are
in the factory, but it doesn't sound like it. The factory with the machine is the small room with the red light that is reached from the side balcony of the cathedral. You can also kill rats with your sword, btw.
I just picked them off at a distance with broadheads. :)
