T2 Campaign - Keeper of Infinity 2: Mission 1 - Bad Venture (6 Jan 2016) - by Soul Tear
Soul Tear on 3/11/2024 at 10:16
You need to throw jar away, not apply it as an item, the default key is R.
Soul Tear on 3/11/2024 at 10:22
As for the objective list, well there is no point in talking about it now after years. Yes, they should be more concise, irrelevant tasks should be hidden. And yes, this is a very cool list of goals, which I am very proud of, it looks cool :cool:
baeuchlein on 3/11/2024 at 13:55
Talking about the objectives list is not completely pointless even now, for I have an idea how goals can be hidden with an expanded version of the current DML. But that needs thorough testing after implementing it, so I postponed this for the time being.
Also, the jar must neither be used nor thrown (the controls for both actions are the same, usually a click with the right mouse button), but dropped. That usually is bound to the "R" key (for "release an inventory object", I guess). It should at least work if one climbs or jumps onto the bed and then uses the "R" key (or whatever that function is bound to).
Estel Randir on 3/11/2024 at 20:48
Quote Posted by Soul Tear
You need to throw jar away, not apply it as an item, the default key is R.
DUH! *smacks self on forehead*. I was so focused on frobbing, I did not think of that. The mission completes now.
I can now say that this mission in Tfix 1.27 with version 1.7 of the mission & the both sets of additional lines added to the miss21.mis.dml is completable. You should repack the mission with all the extra lines added to the miss21.mis.dml. Only the first set are in the 1.7 version. And if the objectives list can be fixed to shrink font size like is normal when the list gets long, that would be really good too.
This mission is aesthetically pleasing with many interesting areas & a good atmosphere. But it is also unnecessarily frustrating. The whole, "get some rest objectives" which came up 2x (actually 3x because one says, there is no rooms available, but that won't stop someone like you) & the player would naturally assume that is the next thing to do to progress - but you can't immediately "get some rest" either time. That is so frustrating it's not even funny. Maybe next time don't add that type of objective until the other ones are complete. You can easily get that objective way too early and spend time obsessing over it. Some of your objectives make no sense at all because they apply to the second part of the mission. One objective mentions using new tunnels to get into the house of science combined with a current objective, but you obviously cannot do that yet. That objective checks off once the first part is completed and you did not go into that tunnel to the house of science. Simply confusing.
I enjoy missions being pleasantly creative & missions with a twist, but extra care sometimes has to be taken to ensure the player understands that things have to be done in a different way. I liked the crowbar. I did not immediately know it was to be used on things like the grates, but I figured it out. Also, why would you pry boards from the side of a building while hanging from a rope instead of prying them from the roof while standing on top of it? That part was odd. I liked the fact you had to pry the boards off the building near the forest gate, just not while hanging from a rope off the side of the building. That sort of thing is both creative and frustrating. Another of your missions requires you to throw a crate into a window to get in. Breakable windows is a thing I wish there was more of. But the average player would probably not be able to figure it out. I watched Klatremus play that one. He is not an average player & even he struggled with parts of that mission & needed advice.
fortuni on 3/11/2024 at 21:15
Quote Posted by Estel Randir
if the objectives list can be fixed to shrink font size like is normal when the list gets long, that would be really good too.
Not possible to do with a dml I'm afraid.
I agree with your assessment of this mission, it has so much to admire but maybe ST ambitions went beyond the limitation of the dark engine.
Estel Randir on 3/11/2024 at 22:21
Quote Posted by fortuni
Not possible to do with a dml I'm afraid.
I agree with your assessment of this mission, it has so much to admire but maybe ST ambitions went beyond the limitation of the dark engine.
I think the main issue is just the order of the objectives & the way the mission "unfolds". In some places it seems like too many objectives are trying to be accomplished at the same time interfering with each other. There is just too much going on at the same time and the scripts get crossed maybe. A slower pace would help. Also the author seems to try to hint at future objectives that cannot be accomplished in the first mission causing confusion. There are plenty of missions with multiple objectives that have nothing to do with each other. These seem to work fine. But this mission's objectives often overlap each other and "unfold" at the same time. They get in each other's way and cause the scripts to interfere with each other and bug out. That is my take anyway. I have no knowledge of how the scripts work.
baeuchlein on 4/11/2024 at 05:23
The font size is not changed if the list gets too long. Instead, a new font is selected, out of three available ones. Unfortunately, the smallest one already is the smallest font Thief has to offer. Besides, it is be far easier to change that font by altering the resources in the FM archive.
No, I'm afraid I'll have to try to let some fulfilled objectives "vanish" once they're not important anymore - just like the "Lady Adaline" objectives in the second mission. It works with a DML in the 2nd mission, so it should also be possible in mission 1.
The problem with the objectives "overlapping" and getting into each other's way lies rather in defining (in DromEd) which goal is accomplished with what action, and being aware what can be done in one order only, and what can be done in any order. The scripts do not seem to be the problem here. And of course, the player has problems to understand what he/she can do next, for he/she does not know how these things might interfere with each other, which goals may be completed only at a later time, and which goals will be completed or even cancelled at some time in the future although these goals are not actively pursued by the player. Mission 2 also has some of these problems.
Estel Randir on 4/11/2024 at 05:43
Found a disappointing bug. The very fun optional cannot be completed. It requires a pickaxe. The pickaxe can be picked up across from the winehouse guard, but it simply disappears and never appears in inventory. There is not even the normal noise when you pickup an item. This makes me very sad. Is there some kind of script that can be added to fix this without having to recompile the mission and/or starting a new game?
downwinder on 4/11/2024 at 08:59
use the tilde key to access axe??? `~
baeuchlein on 4/11/2024 at 15:46
The pick-axe appears as a weapon, not in your inventory. There is no designated key for this one, though, so you have to use the "weapons cycle key" to find and ready it. Then you can use it like any other weapon that can be wielded.
