Samantha1 on 17/4/2021 at 21:24
Hmmm I gotta say I do not understand the "hype" about the calendra missions. I played calendras legacy even before calendras cistern, but didn´t enjoy it much and dropped it after like half an hour. Now I really gave calendras cistern a try and tried to like it since I can see that it was made with alot of effort, but I just can´t get into it and dropped it after 1 hour. It has a story and all but I just felt pretty bored playing it.
baeuchlein on 18/4/2021 at 01:02
The Calendra missions are surely not everyone's taste. The Cistern mission has a city part which players may or may not find interesting, and a part where the player finally goes about his main business among Calendra's people. I found all that very hard when I played this mission for the first time, but when I played it a second time many, many years later, I liked it more. Still not my absolute favorite, but it worked better then.
Calendra's legacy has several missions, and the first one is a bit uncommon: Either you mainly stick to the objectives and/or the task at hand, in which case you will play a rather small and short mission, or you explore a bit and find a monstrous (or so I thought, at least) side quest in a secluded place. The second mission has a time limit and instructions which I did not find very precise, and I do not like that very much. The third mission maybe had some kind of bug or other problem when I played it years ago, but my old notes are not very elaborate on that subject.
Maybe the missions just don't fit my preferred playstyle. I don't know.
klatremus on 18/4/2021 at 05:25
Quote Posted by Samantha1
I played calendras legacy even before calendras cistern, but didn´t enjoy it much and dropped it after like half an hour.
Are you talking about giving legacy or cistern half an hour? I interpreted it as the former. Now I know these missions can be a bit hit or miss with people, but you are looking at a good 8-10 hours of gametime for the whole campaign, if you want to experience everything it has to offer and find most of the loot. So 30 minutes would be like watching 6 minutes of a 2 hour movie and saying you didn't like it.
nicked on 18/4/2021 at 10:39
I think the hype is because it was a big leap forward at the time in terms of what could be achieved in Dromed. Does it hold up to fresh eyes today? Hard to say. Most of what it does that wowed people back in 2000 has been surpassed many times over since. It's painfully linear, the architecture is inconsistent and often overly simple and blocky by today's standards. There's a lot of important information about the story and objectives which is conveyed through blink-and-you'll-miss-it conversations, which can leave you confused and directionless. The "adult" themes feel very tryhard and starkly at odds with the otherwise painstaking attempts to blend the lore seamlessly with the original games. The story is fun though, but I'd say if you're playing through for the first time ever in 2021, having a walkthrough up, not trying to complete every side objective and bonus, and adjusting your expectations by 20 years will make for a more enjoyable experience.
RippedPhreak on 18/4/2021 at 16:03
I can see how CC would not hold up to the polished NewDark missions of today, but CL somehow does.
The great thing about CL is that if you don't follow a walkthrough, you won't discover all the little secrets and special areas. You can play it five or six times and still find neat things you missed earlier.
Samantha1 on 19/4/2021 at 06:38
Quote Posted by RippedPhreak
I can see how CC would not hold up to the polished NewDark missions of today, but CL somehow does.
The great thing about CL is that if you don't follow a walkthrough, you won't discover all the little secrets and special areas. You can play it five or six times and still find neat things you missed earlier.
I think that is what I didn´t like about both of the games. Like, they are very difficult. Like not in the difficult way that I enjoy, but in the difficult way of me wondering how I´m supposed to know about certain things.
I´m someone who wants to find out everything in a mission (except maybe finding all the loot), and I love missions like the scarlet cascabel in which you have so much to do and actually can do it without a walkthrough. If I need a walkthrough cause the stuff is just not explained, too well hidden or too hard to find, I quickly lose interest. I think the calendra missions are missions like that. I never needed a walkthrough or anything for the OMs and I feel it should be like that for FMs aswell.
Also what nicked said "The "adult" themes feel very tryhard and starkly at odds with the otherwise painstaking attempts to blend the lore seamlessly with the original games." I´ve always felt kinda aversed from the story line of calendra, especially the mercedes topic. I think that´s also sth. that makes me instantly dislike the calendra fanmissions.
It´s plainly obvious that both of the missions are very well-done with alot of thought and effort put into, I can just say that they are just not my cup of tea :)
Brodo Swaggins on 19/4/2021 at 14:29
Quote Posted by Samantha1
It´s plainly obvious that both of the missions are very well-done with alot of thought and effort put into, I can just say that they are just not my cup of tea :)
I'm with you on Cistern. I just played it for the first time in 20 years and it really didn't hold up for me. More interesting as a historical marker in FM development: big collaborative project, lots of tech experiments, custom assets & briefings, etc. But it's wild to imagine the mission was released without the expectation of a walkthrough. The body part scavenger hunt is...impossible? And so much of the map is just empty sewers and tunnels.
I loved Legacy, though - the first two missions at least. Big atmospheric city maps with tons of secrets and puzzles. My cup of tea :) And the undead twist in mission 2 didn't bother me at all, though I get that it turned others off.
Mission three though....it's a weird one. Some great atmosphere and Keeper architecture, but it felt sort of tacked-on, like it wasn't part of the original planned story. Lots of empty warehouses, a random serial killer, and a grudge match with another thief we've never met before - it's just not very coherent. And yeah, the romance just flat-out doesn't work. Impossible to take seriously when the femme fatale is named (no joke) Mercedes Lexus. Oy.
marbleman on 19/4/2021 at 14:41
Quote Posted by Brodo Swaggins
Mercedes Lexus
Mercedes Porsche Lexus. :cheeky:
Brodo Swaggins on 19/4/2021 at 14:44
Quote Posted by marbleman
Mercedes Porsche Lexus. :cheeky:
Oh good lord
BigGaston on 20/4/2021 at 05:11
I think CC is better appreciated by comparing it to other T1 fan missions of its time rather than holding it up to "modern" standards (which are already shaky for a 20+ year old game). As other have noted, the custom skins, art, and dialogue were groundbreaking- most FMs used stock resources, and CC was among the first real signs of how far an author's vision could take Thief beyond the LGS missions. This also helped create a more vivid story and characterization (which, while not to everyone's tastes, was clearly more memorable than most contemporary FMs and arguably even some OMs).
On that note, CC really deserves credit for blending elements of Gothic fiction and dark fantasy with the Thief universe (which was expanded further in CL: witch covens, vampires, etc). This DnD-inspired vision of the City has proven to be especially enduring, as seen from Rowena's missions to many NewDark releases.