Dev_Anj on 26/8/2015 at 13:59
Quote Posted by RocketMan
System Shock was already, "available digitally", as you put it, and with plenty of polish applied to it. The only point in re-releasing it is to bring it to a demographic who mostly aren't heavily drawn to the genre in the first place (else they would have found SSP) and, to seize an opportunity to profit off of something that was previously non-profit, because they can.
Are you seriously suggesting that they should have left an illegitimate copy of System Shock remain uploaded on a website that otherwise doesn't have much shady business after getting the rights? Yes it was available without profits, similar to how most software and entertainment is available without profits on pirate websites. That doesn't mean that the people who publish it or made it are happy about it or would let it pass if they could feasibly remove those. I understand that Kolya wanted to preserve the original game, but he was always offering it without any consent from the publishers or developers. Do read Yankee Clipper's post again.
ZylonBane on 26/8/2015 at 14:28
Quote Posted by RocketMan
System Shock was already, "available digitally", as you put it, and with plenty of polish applied to it.
ILLEGALLY. Some people care about that distinction. Just because you don't, doesn't make their opinion invalid.
Night Dive's past actions are irrelevant to their current course of action with SS1. No matter whether the SS1 rights had been picked up by Night Dive, Eidos, Arkane, CD Projekt, Monsanto, or the Church of the Subgenius, System Shock Portable would have been forced offline regardless. It's just how these things work. There is no rational foundation for getting upset about it. Anyone who puts up abandonware accepts the possibility that at some point someone with lawyers will tell them to take it down.
RocketMan on 26/8/2015 at 14:42
Quote Posted by Dev_Anj
Are you seriously suggesting that they should have left an illegitimate copy of System Shock remain uploaded on a website that otherwise doesn't have much shady business after getting the rights?
Yes.
First of all, If LGS had tried to reclaim and re-sell their IP I would not have a problem with it. They designed it. If Origin wanted to sell it again, they were the original publisher and while they didn't write the code for the game, I would also be very sympathetic. Night Dive is neither, and while this isn't enough to make me hate them, their other deplorable qualities are.
Second, I don't believe in labeling acts as good or bad because they fit neatly into a category, like the warez you mentioned. SystemShock.org is and always has been full of selfless individuals whose only selfish crime is the satisfaction they get and the minor recognition within the community for giving of their time and skills to make our favourite game available in the 21st century to like-minded people. You can call it warez if you want to but by doing so you suggest the site has an immoral foundation and Night Dive is virtuous when the opposite is true. Laws are made by men in an attempt to carve out the gray area of right and wrong but they do evolve as the needs and wants of society evolve and they are seldom perfect. Morality is personal and can always be argued from both a logical and emotional foundation.
Third, I have very good reason to believe that the former LGS employees who did all the work on System Shock are not vexed by having their game freely available after the dissolution of their company.
RocketMan on 26/8/2015 at 14:52
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
ILLEGALLY. Some people care about that distinction. Just because you don't, doesn't make their opinion invalid.
You're right, it IS illegal.
But that was never something I disputed. Whereas you are trying to draw my attention to the distinction between legal and illegal, I care about the distinction between illegal and immoral. The world around me works the way it does and there's nothing I can do about it. There are all sorts of rules and laws I have to live by that irritate me because I disagree with them, like HOV lanes and the Catholic School Board getting my tax money. So be it. We all have to play the game. However, just because I disagree with a law OR how a particular entity uses said law, doesn't make me an asshole because I'm not defending the scales of justice that were built on a civilization of fallible and often self-serving people. I'm just thankful that "for the most part", it's better to live in a society with laws and rules than one without them.
Dev_Anj on 26/8/2015 at 15:42
Rocketman, I do agree that laws are imperfect and following them in letter while rejecting their spirit is a dangerous line of thought that often leads to impractical and poor implementation of them by either being too liberal, or being too strict. Yet, I question if the publishers, that is the people who supplied the money for making the game, do not have any right to it or to how it's distributed. Do you think it is wrong of them to provide the rights they have to someone else if they desire? Do you think Star Insurance Company should have never got the rights to System Shock and it would remain in limbo?
Honestly even otherwise, I'm sure System Shock Portable will remain uploaded on many websites, privately or publicly. Night Dive won't chase all of them because it's time consuming and will use up too much money. People looking for getting the game for free still can, nothing really changes by this download getting removed from Kolya's website for them.
RocketMan on 26/8/2015 at 15:59
Quote Posted by Dev_Anj
Rocketman, I do agree that laws are imperfect and following them in letter while rejecting their spirit is a dangerous line of thought that often leads to impractical and poor implementation of them by either being too liberal, or being too strict. Yet, I question if the publishers, that is the people who supplied the money for making the game, do not have any right to it or to how it's distributed. Do you think it is wrong of them to provide the rights they have to someone else if they desire? Do you think Star Insurance Company should have never got the rights to System Shock and it would remain in limbo?
Honestly even otherwise, I'm sure System Shock Portable will remain uploaded on many websites, privately or publicly. Night Dive won't chase all of them because it's time consuming and will use up too much money. People looking for getting the game for free still can, nothing really changes by this download getting removed from Kolya's website for them.
Yeah... it's true. Not the end of the world or anything. In practical terms, what they've done is nothing special and SSP isn't going to evaporate, certainly. As fate would have it, we may yet benefit from the re-consolidation of the IP under a single owner so that's something to be hopeful about. Just a lot of bad blood, speaking for myself.
terrannova on 3/9/2015 at 04:32
Wow, interesting news for System Shock 1. Will keep an eye out for this for sure, it needs to get to GOG/Steam asap, I am itching to play again.
Maxrebo6 on 3/9/2015 at 16:48
Well at least from what was said in their letter requesting it be taken down,a future release was hinted it,hopefully on GOG.If that's the case then I don't have a problem with it.I tend to have problem with this kind of stuff when a copyright holder goes around taking this kind of stuff down and then proceeds to nothing with the IP and doesn't offer a legal means with to acquire the game thus rendering the game unavailable to anyone interested in playing the game who doesn't want a plunk down a wad of cash on a second hand version.There is no reason in this day to leave games especially old PC games rotting in the abyss,when you give the gamer's what they want and make some money while your at it.
RocketMan on 6/9/2015 at 01:58
Quote Posted by Maxrebo6
Well at least from what was said in their letter requesting it be taken down,a future release was hinted it,hopefully on GOG.If that's the case then I don't have a problem with it.I tend to have problem with this kind of stuff when a copyright holder goes around taking this kind of stuff down and then proceeds to nothing with the IP and doesn't offer a legal means with to acquire the game thus rendering the game unavailable to anyone interested in playing the game who doesn't want a plunk down a wad of cash on a second hand version.There is no reason in this day to leave games especially old PC games rotting in the abyss,when you give the gamer's what they want and make some money while your at it.
I can't say I fully understand why a bunch of people who probably already own legal copies or who downloaded it when it was available, would now want to rush out to buy it all over again to a bunch of parasites but I'll leave that as one of the enigmas of life. I've got a legal copy and an old Pentium 133 piece of shit to play it on, which is how it was always meant to be played anyway so I'm happy.
Maxrebo6 on 7/9/2015 at 06:22
I don't own a legal copy of the game nor do I have backup of SSP(I regret that now).I am neither for nor against them putting up for sale on GOG and the like in fact for me that"s preferable to them just taking it down and offering the no options in regards fans being able to playing their favorite games without have to resort to the highway robbery the second hand market can be.
