Salk on 2/10/2009 at 11:10
My fault then... It was long time ago but I do doubt I played at Nightmare difficulty.
But to answer raph, yes, I did play and finished both NOLF and NOLF 2 and I don't remember any respawning in the sequel. Since my mind seems pretty much messed up, I'd not be so surprised that the memory of it has been erased somehow. But where in the game do you actually find respawning enemies? :confused:
rachel on 2/10/2009 at 11:25
One particularly egregious example was that military base you have to infiltrate (I'm a bit fuzzy on details but I think it was after a long treck in the snow): soviet soldiers kept popping out even after you cleared out the whole building, and there was simply no excuse whatsoever for them being there other than fucked up gameplay.
Salk on 2/10/2009 at 12:00
Quote Posted by raph
One particularly egregious example was that military base you have to infiltrate (I'm a bit fuzzy on details but I think it was after a long treck in the snow): soviet soldiers kept popping out even after you cleared out the whole building, and there was simply no excuse whatsoever for them being there other than fucked up gameplay.
You are right!
Now I remember that as well! I thought at first that it was an annoying bug but after reading you I realize it was, like you fairly said, fucked up gameplay. Still I believe that the russian military base was luckily the only part of the game where ridicolous respawning occurred.
Enchantermon on 2/10/2009 at 14:43
Quote Posted by Salk
About shaking head... First ZB says that I am gonna play a RPG, not frigging Doom and then he points out I am playing a RPG/FPS hybrid. Well, what game is SS2 then?
Both.
The RPG comment was pointing out a specific part of SS2's genre, while the FPS/RPG comment pointed out the genre as a whole.
cosmicnut on 2/10/2009 at 15:13
The problem you have with RPGs is the level of detail.
You work out a series of encounters that work as your mission structure. problem is, there really aren't enough for a decent play time.
To get past this you need to generate more encounters.
This takes time to do, and what if the player can skip encounters, they may only find 50% of them and you've wasted your time.
There are 2 quick solutions
Respawn.
Random Encounter.
Neither are perfect but it does mean the developers can work on the more interesting parts of the gameplay.
I personally don't like too much respawning (I like random encounters even less), but SS does become a little less frantic because of it.
in "reality", there is a finite amount of biological material on board, there is also a finite crew.
What you need to do is have a set number of crew based creatures (as there was a finite crew) and smaller limit of the rumblers and other larger Many creatures (they would take time to "grow"). You then need cannon fodder. A quick, mass produced many soldier that relies solely on biomass for its creation and not based on a mutated human. You can then say that any killed creature is re-cycled into these creations.
Of course, we know that SS2 was rushed and trying to get this to work would have taken far longer than the devs would ever have
ZylonBane on 2/10/2009 at 15:49
Quote Posted by cosmicnut
Of course, we know that SS2 was rushed and trying to get this to work would have taken far longer than the devs would ever have
More importantly, it would have been a fidelity of simulation that the overwhelming majority of players would never even notice. When I kill a monster in SS2, I don't keep a running statistical database of how many of that creature type I've killed... only an OCD lunatic would do that. I just kill the thing and move on with what I was doing.
And oh god, NOLF 2... ugh. Now that was a sterling example of respawning done wrong. You'd kill a guard, and 30 seconds later his clone would walk in to replace him. In a game where you're playing a spy, not a relentless killing machine, this is very bad.
New Horizon on 2/10/2009 at 16:43
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
oh god, NOLF 2... ugh. Now that was a sterling example of respawning done wrong. You'd kill a guard, and 30 seconds later his clone would walk in to replace him. In a game where you're playing a spy, not a relentless killing machine, this is very bad.
We must not forget the City sections of Thief Deadly Shadows, where you kill or knock out someone and their twin comes around the corner whistling a few seconds later.
As for Salk.
If you're not going to play the game as it was intended, give it away.
It's as Zylon has said, you don't notice the respawns because they're not happening near you...nor do they have awareness of you. They're simply showing up in another part of the game world to give some sense of credibility to the idea that there is a HUGE number of people on the ship.
Play it as is the first time through, or walk away from it.
Zygoptera on 2/10/2009 at 23:01
Quote Posted by cosmicnut
Of course, we know that SS2 was rushed and trying to get this to work would have taken far longer than the devs would ever have
Would have taken maybe ten minutes to implement. Random Monster Generators can have a maximum number of spawns associated with them and, iirc, the property actually does work.
Enchantermon on 2/10/2009 at 23:41
Quote Posted by cosmicnut
A quick, mass produced many soldier that relies solely on biomass for its creation and not based on a mutated human. You can then say that any killed creature is re-cycled into these creations.
You mean like this?
Quote Posted by Prefontaine
. . . [The Many] can also directly use us in the creation of its egg pods... corpses are fed into some kind of tubular structure... and eggs are birthed through a nearby tube.
Quote Posted by Prefontaine
The proto-arachnid is extremely quick and potentially relatively cheap in biomass.
zakisbak on 4/10/2009 at 22:37
I seem to have hit a respawning nightmare.
I'm near the end of the "body" level,just dropped into the water,killed a couple of monsters and jellyfish floater things.
Am now on the ledge you float up to,but each time I drop down,jellyfish floaters appear in front and behind.
I've already killed them,and this seems impossible to progress.
I've really enjoyed this game and this is a real disappointment.
Any tips?
