System Shock 2: Disable respawning

Nameless Voice on 1/10/2009 at 16:13

Quote Posted by Salk

System Shock 2 and Doom 3, in particular, have been alternately lauded or derided for these features by players and reviewers alike."

I've played through Doom 3 fully, twice, and cannot think of a single instance of enemies respawning. Not one.
The closest thing is maybe the archviles spawning in more enemies, but that's hardly the same thing. If they had been more like the archviles in Doom 2, then it would have counted as respawning to an extent, but still nothing like what you're talking about in System Shock 2.

Wormrat on 1/10/2009 at 16:17

Yeah, the wikipedia article is terrible. It tries to distinguish regular monster spawns from respawning (which is really more like "regeneration"), then ends up conflating them anyway. Doom, for example, doesn't have any respawns unless you're playing on Nightmare. "More monsters appeared, and I didn't like that" is a completely separate kind of design complaint.

Nameless Voice on 1/10/2009 at 16:21

Yes, it's the difference between Oblivion and Gothic:

Oblivion: Any slain monsters respawn after a week or so.
Gothic: Some additional monsters occasionally appear at scripted times as the player progresses in the game.

ZylonBane on 1/10/2009 at 16:22

Quote Posted by Salk

Also I openly question the respawning as game concept to build tension. The tension and immersion is built by knowing that you might have to face a danger at any time. Usually having pauses, more or less long, adds to it. The respawning concept breaks this pattern by making you sure that more enemies will somehow pop up, making it an endless and tedious wave of repetitive fighting mechanisms. The fact that the numbers of enemy is finited doesn't mean that you know when you are out of danger.

You seem to be suffering under the misconception that SS2 respawns enemies who then immediately seek you out and attack you. This is false. When SS2 respawns enemies, it can be anywhere in the current map, and they don't have a clue where you are, unless you've been spotted by a camera. Thus, there is precisely the tension you described, because you have no way of knowing when and where your next enemy encounter will occur. Contrariwise, by disabling respawning, it becomes possible to permanently clear a level out, which utterly destroys tension, replacing it with the numbing tedium of tracking back and forth through a dead, lifeless level.

A further apparent misconception on your part is that all enemies must be fought. This is also false. SS2 is based on the Thief engine, which means that it's entirely viable to sneak past, run away from, or otherwise evade your opponents.

As for the realism argument, as has already been explained to you ad nauseum, it's not unrealistic in the context of the game. The respawning is intended to simulate a very large number of enemies (two entire starships worth) freely moving about the gameworld, hunting you down.

Quote Posted by Salk

For me the suspension of disbelief requires that things that are plainly unrealistic (and in my opinion, tedious) like respawning should - when possible - be taken out of any kind of game.

Considering that SS2 is a hybrid RPG-FIRST PERSON SHOOTER, this complaint is roughly on par with wanting to remove all those tedious dots from Pac-Man (and oh god... they respawn!!!).

Matthew on 1/10/2009 at 16:30

I always chuckle a little bit when people argue about realism in a sci-fi setting, particularly in one where several possible explanations already exist for resurrection / teleportation.

ZylonBane on 1/10/2009 at 17:34

A science fiction setting does not abdicate responsibility for verisimilitude.

BG_HHaunt on 1/10/2009 at 17:34

I don't like FPSs mostly.I like to play thief or games like it more.But when I started system shock I liked it.I'm playing the first game and don't have problems with respawning.It's adding more tension as others said.Don't know if system shock 2 respawns many enemies.But I'll buy it soon.

Salk on 1/10/2009 at 21:04

Quote Posted by ZylonBane

SS2 is an RPG, not smegging DOOM.

Quote Posted by ZylonBane

Considering that SS2 is a hybrid RPG-FIRST PERSON SHOOTER, this complaint is roughly on par with wanting to remove all those tedious dots from Pac-Man (and oh god... they respawn!!!).

:tsktsk:

I am told that Dead Space is a first person shooter AND a survival horror game AND... surprise surprise... there is no respawning. It's also about a starship. And I was told it is very good at creating tension and building a very immersive environment.

Salk on 1/10/2009 at 21:07

Quote Posted by ZylonBane

A science fiction setting does not abdicate responsibility for verisimilitude.

The concept of a non finite amount of enemies is plainly flawed and unrealistic. This is one more of my misconceptions...

voodoo47 on 1/10/2009 at 21:13

doom3 has respawning? I did not notice any (scripted sequences are not the same thing)..