System Shock 1 remakes... BUILD engine? - by Zod Wallop
Zod Wallop on 4/10/2006 at 15:52
Guys, we all see System Shock remakes being touted on the board every few weeks only to have them fizzle.
What I was wondering is: Has anybody tried doing a remake using the BUILD engine? It was such a popular engine for map makers that it seems that it wouldn't be too difficult to find people that could help recreate the maps. Now that it's been open sourced, BUILD can support higher resolutions, Open GL and Direct 3D, even fully 3D models (though I would prefer a 2.5D remake since my only problem with System Shock is that I would like to remap the contols and change the way lean works). And Ken Silverman doesn't seem to mind helping people that are trying out things in BUILD... I dunno, is it worth a shot?
ZylonBane on 4/10/2006 at 16:04
That sounds entirely pointless. There are much newer, equally open-source 3D engines available.
Engine choice isn't the problem. Manpower and staying under EA's radar are the problems.
TF on 4/10/2006 at 16:19
has anyone tried a rebuild of tto using the ttlg forums engine
whoops all done
ZylonBane on 4/10/2006 at 16:52
Ummm... right.
What's important is that you tried.
Lanael on 4/10/2006 at 17:54
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
Engine choice isn't the problem. Manpower and staying under EA's radar are the problems.
Yep, and more : the engine itself is not the problem. SS1 is a game, not just rendered levels with monsters crawling around.
Bjossi on 4/10/2006 at 18:01
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
Engine choice isn't the problem. Manpower and staying under EA's radar are the problems.
Staying under EA's radar wouldn't be a problem if you are out of the range, but staying hidden working on a project wouldn't be any good when you don't get any feedback. But maybe if a team works secretly...
But then there comes the risk of EA wanting you to remove download links, so all the hard work would be for nothing, unless they are sent privately to those who request them. :sweat:
Zod Wallop on 4/10/2006 at 18:40
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
That sounds entirely pointless. There are much newer, equally open-source 3D engines available.
Engine choice isn't the problem. Manpower and staying under EA's radar are the problems.
I was thinking of the old System Shock Hack Project where at least part of the problem was that they were trying to build a new engine to run the game. Seems there the engine was at least part of the problem.
As for manpower, I just figure there are lots and lots of people out there that are skilled at creating maps in BUILD. Also, BUILD is a 2.5D engine like the original System Shock except that it is still supported and could therefore be made to run under Windows XP. It also allows controls to be reconfigured etc.
BUILD may not be as flashy as some open-source engines, but at least it is simple to use and could retain the flavor of the original game. While there may not be huge interest in it, I don't think my suggestion was pointless.
Just my thoughts anyway.
ZylonBane on 4/10/2006 at 19:11
Ease of use is largely irrelevant-- there already exist tools to export the SS1 level geometry. The challenge with any engine is modifying it to reproduce the many unique features of SS1.
Kolya on 4/10/2006 at 22:46
Regarding staying under anyone's radar: I'm not sure it's even necessary as SS1 gets distributed freely for years now. But if it is, just get some webspace on a server in Russia - the land of the free.
ToxicFrog on 7/10/2006 at 21:36
Quote Posted by Zod Wallop
Also, BUILD is a 2.5D engine like the original System Shock
Which instantly disqualifies it, because System Shock did
not use a 2.5D engine. Although the tile-based map format prevents full exploitation of the Z-axis, the engine itself is true 3d, and they made use of this.
In particular:
- sloped floor and ceiling surfaces
- the ability to pitch view +- 90 degrees
- limited ability to roll view (or, in the floppy version, hilariously unlimited in some circumstances)
- 3d models (crates, security cameras, and charging stations, among other things) with limited animation support
- the map format can't do over-and-under level geometry, but the engine can fake it by using 3d models for floors/ceilings where one room crosses another - Deck 2 has at least one example of this, and Deck 7 has several.
And after completely rewriting the BUILD renderer to accomodate these things, you also have to add support for SS1's physics. And possibly dynamic lighting, although I think BUILD supports that already. And so forth...
