voodoo47 on 16/9/2010 at 18:01
I'm aware of the name change in adaob029 (and earlier versions),and in my opinion,that is the "proper" way of fixing the laser/plasma pistol.in adaob030,the beam works quite differently,and I consider this as "changing the mechanics",and I think that is exactly the point where a bugfix/balance patch is starting to become a mod..anyway,the real problem is not whether adaob is a patch or a mod,the real problem is,how to keep improving the game without destroying the original spirit of ss2? where is the thin red line that separates adaob from just another ss2 mod where you can hunt nazi-zombies for infinite cyber modules?
RocketMan on 16/9/2010 at 20:54
Quote Posted by TheNightTerror
That was what I was going to do, use Straylight for a starting point and create a far more conservative version of it to be used for the unofficial patch. Since Straylight has so many bug fixes and a fair amount of them documented it seems like the best place to start from, but having to start from scratch when Straylight is just sitting there and everyone is yelling at you to back away, yeah.
Honestly, I would love Straylight if the tools were simply left alone, what set me off at the time was the idea that it was going to be called the unofficial patch when it was so different, but that's long since settled. I'd appreciate Straylight a lot more if you didn't take the tools out, way I figure it people who don't like the tools won't use them, so why bother getting rid of them?
Doing the texture work is completely different, though, all of the hard work has been done already. Just go wherever you'd find the high res textures, apply the new texture and punch in the numbers NV used. It'd be a significant amount of work but nothing compared to the original job. NV wasn't too keen on that plan for some mysterious reason . . .
I never got far enough to figure out exactly what all had been done to the gamesys, depending on how complicated the work done to it was, I was either going to undo or tone down changes to the gamesys or start with the original one and work my way forward.
I think you need to talk less and do more. You've certainly pissed me off enough to join the conversation.
Irrational made this game but they're not Gods. We have some very experienced and thoughtful individuals on this forum who not only know the game inside out and have the gameplay "experience" tatooed in their brains but are also disciplined enough to make adjustments to the game on behalf of everyone else so that the game is still enjoyable. Balancing is sometimes necessary and it makes the game better. We're not going to make multiple versions of something like this because it's too damn hard and it's not worth the gains....so have fun doing it yourself.
What's this shit about leaving the tools in? Kolya's right. They make the skills obsolete and don't tell me that if you don't want to use them you won't....if you see a tool, you're gonna pick it up. Are you telling me that most ppl would ignore it OR carry it around for a while and then spend money on skills anyway to do the same damn job? Rediculous. I like all the stuff in the game so leaving a couple in is great but restoring the usefullness of the skills is just the right thing to do. Just because the game didn't ship this way doesn't mean we butchered it...it simply wasn't perfect when they shipped it.
....and this is coming from someone who likes to leave things as plain and true as possible.
TheNightTerror on 16/9/2010 at 22:14
And I don't know the game inside out? How could you possibly know that? One aspect of the game that I loved was not being forced into anything, if you didn't want to get certain skills, you didn't have to, because Irrational provided just enough tools for you to get by without them. Do you think that was an accident?
And maybe it got lost in the woodworks here but I planned on making the unofficial patch myself. Most of my criticism was based on the fact that the Straylight patch would be called an unofficial patch despite all of the alterations. That's been settled. I thought that the unofficial patch was still a good idea so I decided to make it.
And if you have a suggestion for exactly what I can do here, pray tell. The unofficial patch isn't a one person job without a bug list, I need someone who worked on Straylight to consult with if I was going to undo changes instead of starting from scratch.
blaydes99 on 16/9/2010 at 22:19
Game developers change the very same types of things in official game patches all the time in the same way Straylight's patch does. Weapons get nerfed, more health/exp gets added, and overall, patches are intended to make a game more balanced and stable, occassionally adding new features or graphical enhancements.
Straylight's patch really is a patch in my view... if you want to start a TNT patch that you feel fits SS2 better, I wish you the best of luck. We'll watch for it when you release it and try it out. You're attacking this ADaOB patch way too aggressively.
ZylonBane on 16/9/2010 at 23:34
Maybe we should lock this thread and then unlock it in... ummm... between 3 and 14 days.
:sweat:
Nameless Voice on 17/9/2010 at 00:29
1d12+2 moderation.
Well, you guys have certainly convinced me that it's not worth making a bugfix-only patch. Pretend I didn't bump the thread last Monday and go back about your business.
TheNightTerror on 17/9/2010 at 00:47
Do game developers regularly remove features of the game for doing exactly what they were intended to do? That's what's happening with removing the tools, and it pushes it straight into mod territory in my book. All I'm trying to do right now is stand my ground on the tools, and if I'm doing that aggressively, so be it.
I may disapprove of the new skill requirements for the weapons, but that's something I can easily bypass by waiting until I have the original skill requirements before using the weapon. You can't work around having the tools flat out removed.
RocketMan on 17/9/2010 at 05:03
Quote Posted by TheNightTerror
All I'm trying to do right now is stand my ground on the tools, and if I'm doing that aggressively, so be it.
You're throwing a fit of denial.....we get it.
Koki on 17/9/2010 at 20:28
Quote Posted by Nameless Voice
Well, you guys have certainly convinced me that it's not worth making a bugfix-only patch.
Don't listen to these losers. Straylight's mod is a joke, it started out well enough but then a bunch of people started changing core gameplay for no real reason(other than "I like it better this way" of course).
Unofficial fanpatch is long overdue. Do it.
Kolya on 17/9/2010 at 21:28
Enter the troll.
