RarRar on 23/3/2006 at 18:27

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Okay, I was skeptical. I had every confidence in Emilio's abilities and knowledge of what makes good stealth but I thought, you know, Oblivion just isn't that kind of game. They have to cater to a wide variety of gameplay types--it's an RPG you know--and doing good stealth is HARD, I wasn't confident Bethesda was devoted enough to it.

But what do you know, I was so wrong. I've gone through three dungeons so far and being stealthy was incredibly fun. They got the rules right: even without the little eye icon you could pretty much tell when they knew you were there and when they didn't. You weren't at the mercy of the pitiless whims of the stealth meter. Now it's your partner, giving you a helping hand, but you have a pretty good idea how successful you are even without it.

And yes, the 3X damage is a pretty awesome perk.

But even more important, the dungeons and situations are set up with stealth in mind. Bad guys don't just stand there facing your direction, never moving. Now they walk around, do little patrols, sometimes they're facing you, sometimes not. There are all kind of nooks and side corridors you can wait in, watching them, and waiting for the perfect opportunity. When their backs are turned you can creep up behind them. Seems obvious enough but I'm constantly amazed by games that try to implement some half-assed idea of stealth because it's the big thing of the moment, then they go and script it so heavily you dare not venture out of the designer-approved "stealth path," like in RTCW where there was one and only one path to sneak up on a sniper tower and you had to follow it, even though at times the sniper was looking right at you, and if you deviated, even if you were directly behind the sniper where they could not possibly see you, they would know you were there and kill you. Or do what Star Trek Voyager Elite Force did and pop up big text that says "Be stealthy now!" and woe be unto you if you tried to be stealthy any other time in the game. I'm sure we all have our favorite bad stealth games.

So my hats off to you Emilio Pagliarulio (sp? too lazy to check--his fault for having such an exotic last name), forgive me for doubting you. Thanks to you Bethesda for willing to go the extra mile to do us stealth fans right.

Now off to more thiefing.

Komag on 23/3/2006 at 22:41

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I was almost spooked how similar the voice cues were to Thief

"What was that?.... Ah, my eyes are probably just fooling me"

"Is someone there....Guess it was nothing..."

You have lockpicks, with a little mini-game to pick locks between 1 and 5 tumblers in complexity

Your stealth is based on a few things:
- your sneak skill
- hard cover
- where the ai is facing
- how fast you're moving
- the lighting (no light meter, you just see how it looks)
- how heavy your boots are! (but on higher sneak skill this no longer matters)

The little eye on the screen when in stealth mode (when crouched) it only an indicator of whether you are currently spotted or not. It is not a meter, just an on/off indicator like in Morrowind. But that's fine with me, make's the stealth play more intuitive and risky feeling

There aren't really any special stealth tools that I know of (no flashbombs or anything like that), but there are the Morrowind potions/spells of invisibility (fully undetectible for a period of time, but you can't activate anything or attack without breaking the spell) and chameleon ("blend in" to the surroundings a certain amount 1-100, you can activate/attack without breaking the spell). Both of these could be had early on. Also you can try to only use light weight boots early on if you want.

Other than that, using a bow from long distance can be stealthy, but I've yet to shoot someone and not be detected after that. Maybe it's possible at higher skill or with some chameleon going on

RarRar on 24/3/2006 at 18:06

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I was playing in a dungeon just this morning and wishing to god I had a water arrow to put out a damn bothersome torch!

I imagine somebody will mod in a blackjack very very soon in the CS. They did it for Morrowind I understand. I don't think I'll use it though. Stealth already seems incredibly powerful to me and a one-shot knockout blackjack, even if the enemy has to be unaware, just seems potentially unbalancing.

Captain Dopetastic on 25/3/2006 at 05:11

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Hey what up folks. Haven't been to these forums in awhile - I don't even remember what my old username was... anywho, I used to post here back when the original Thief came out, and I've been ghosting ever since, until T3 was released, so please don't flame me as a noob or whatever is the custom on these forums now.
Anywho, I just downloaded Oblivion on Tuesday via Direct2drive, and with the possible exception of Thief, it's by far the best computer game I've ever played. The depth is ASTOUNDING. I could mention several different quests that just go on and on through different expanding plotlines, but I don't want to spoil anything. Holy crap, though. Amazing.
But this thread is about stealth. All I want to say is that the stealth has exceeded my highest expectations, and only seems to be getting better. If any of you guys have joined the Dark Brotherhood yet, you'll know what I mean. The contracts they give you are ENORMOUSLY satisfying and creative. Again, I don't want to spoil anything, but WOW they're AWESOME. Seriously, if you're a stealth player, go murder an innocent - it's worth it just to talk to the Dark Brotherhood recruiter, who has the best voice-acting I've yet heard in the game. And your first quest-giver...dude, he's the freaking MAN! I'm getting pumped just thinking about it. The stealth gameplay itself, while not up to the fantastic standards of Thief, is far better than any role-playing game I've played, and is satisfying in its own right.
Anyways, just wanted to put in my two cents. I haven't even hunted out the Thieves' guild yet, just because I'm too focused on getting to the top of the DB heirarchy. Maybe with another character...
Bottom line: Oblivion=awesome, stealth=great but not perfect, Dark Brotherhood=coolest faction EVER.

RyushiBlade on 25/3/2006 at 11:35

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Ragdoll physics isn't meant to be realistic. It's meant to be entertaining! That's why I love Thief: DS so much. Those bendy spines are very cool.