Standing Up for Thief: Deadly Shadows

Keeper Jonas on 28/5/2004 at 01:23

Thief: Deadly Shadows Rocks!!!

Disclaimer: I'm not trying to convince anybody of anything by starting this thread, if you think Thief: Deadly Shadows sucks that's your business. This thread has two purposes, 1.) It is simply a place for people who happen to like Thief: Deadly Shadows to state why they do and 2.) My response to all the criticism of Thief 3 that is already on this forum, note, I'm not attempting to show why anyone is wrong, what we are dealing with here is a matter of opinion, NOT FACT. So while everyone has every right to their own ideas, there isn't one big consensus on this forum that Thief: Deadly Shadows sucks, and I feel compelled to demonstrate that. I've spent the time to read people's criticisms and bear that in mind while I play myself. I've heard what you've had to say already, I have listened to you. I am alarmed by the fact that there's already so much whining, how ever seriously or jokingly it was intended. Can we say something positive? Here is my response:

-Yes, Lock picking is hard, frustrating and dangerous, GOOD!!! We're Thieves, what, should it be handed to us? The game is a mole times more realistic than either of the originals, though I concede that some people don't like realism, they want a game, that's sounds like an editiorial statement, I don't mean it that way, the more realistic, the more close to how it would be if any of us actually tried stunts like Garrett, the Better! The more realistic the stimulation, the more realistic my physiologoical responses are to it, yes precious, I said pyhsiological. I mean adrenaline, I mean the animal glee of sneaking up on somebody and...That is one of the many reasons we play this game, but few people here ever comment on that. Thief: Deadly Shadows does a better job of giving me that than the first two. In short, I don't object to any of the changes in gameplay and interface and they were real smart and kept the storyline/acting/writing perfectly intact. All this is just an opinion.
-No, the map doesn't tell you excatly where you are when you look at it, does a real map do that? You have to keep track of where your going yourself. The old maps were too easy.
-I like the ladders, I like being able to see Garrett in first person mode.
-I like the redesigned arrows. They aren't all roughly the same shape with just different colors, and there's some detail.
-Heck, I love the old graphics engine but ya know what, it was getting stale, doing the same missions over and over again was getting stale and no, fan missions are not necessarily a better solution, ghosting more and more strictly isn't necessarily a better solution. No one here has Stephen Russell, or any of the other voice actors, or is thus far, a better writer than those who concieved the City, no one here can immerse me the way they can. We may be loyal fans, but never forget, we did not invent this universe. Plus the first two games don't finish the story, I hate cliffhanger endings.
-I'd focus more on what I liked about the game, but I'm not yet comfortable doing that, I haven't had it long enough to articulate any of that. I do know I like it a lot. It's odd, considering that this is a fansite the amount of anger and disappointment I've already read in various posts. The Game is made by more or less the same people, what, does a Thief Game have to accumulate some kinda seniority around here before it is accepted?I've been waiting for this for three and a have years! Longing for it! I am really happy about it. I've seen no other threads saying really positive things about it. Is that not "kool", I really could care less, I LIKE IT, WHO AGREES WITH ME?

ZylonBane on 28/5/2004 at 01:32

Quote Posted by Keeper Jonas

The game is a mole times more realistic than either of the originals

So you contend that the loot beacons, arrow trails, inability to be blinded by your own flashbombs, lethality of water, and blindness-healing powers of the blackjack are more realistic?

:rolleyes:

Keeper Jonas on 28/5/2004 at 01:40

Quote Posted by ZylonBane

So you contend that the loot beacons, arrow trails, inability to be blinded by your own flashbombs, lethality of water, and blindness-healing powers of the blackjack are more realistic?

:rolleyes:

If not being blinded by flashbombs bothers you, it's your right to say so but I didn't intend this thread as place to argue over singular and specific details of the game and their pros or cons, read the title. I meant this mainly to serve as a place for people who like the game to post comments like my first one without being barraged by little details like not being blinded by flash bombs, start your own thread, or go to one of the many others on this fourm where such opinions already have sway. I like the game, I hope I'm not the only one here who does. Our (Or my?) opinions are valid too, there will always be a large amount of complaining, I'll stick with the minority and praise, cliche yes, draw what conclusions you will, I won't back down. :ebil:

madphilb on 28/5/2004 at 02:09

I'll add my "here, here" to the coolness of Theif: DS..... and list a few of the things that I've seen so far that I like:

+ Voice talent... while DX: IW used some of the same voice talent as the original, it isn't quite the same situation as with Theif. Garrett sounds like himself, you find old "friends" from the last two games making a return in the people in the City. and to go with that....

+ Conversations.... not only do we have the conversations of the previous game, but now we've got interaction between NPCs outside the normal scripted conversations.

+ Plays smooth.... DX: IW was less than optimized, Theif on the other hand shows they put a lot of effort into making the game run smooth.

+ Loot glint, while it does look really goofy on people as they're walking down the street (esp. with things other than their money-purse), it does help in the hunt for the valuable stuff. It could have been a lot worse, I think they did it pretty good.

+ Lock Picking! Oh YEAH! I do have to try it without the "vibrate" feature of the XBox to see how hard it would be with just a mouse/keyboard type situation (it's not all that hard when you just have to feel around for it). The new lock-pick system does make you feel more like YOU are picking the lock. (but, yes, the locks in the middle of the doors are wierd).

+ The City.... the "free roam" city is fun, and actually selling off what you steal expands the scope of the game, but they've not made it a chore. On top of that since everything carries over from mission to mission it gives people an insentive to be as efficient as possible with what they use on a mission.

+ The BOX!!!! Thank Gawd they didn't use that terrible box they had in the stores (that one with the white background).... it's a little thing, but at least what they picked is more fitting for the style of the game itself.

I'm sure there's more, but this is keeping me away from playing ;)

Valkyre on 28/5/2004 at 02:16

Well for me, being a die hard fan of the originals ever since the original Thief demo hit back in 98', the game is a mix for me. I won't write a full review until I beat the game, so at least then I have a good handle on things.

Retlaw on 28/5/2004 at 02:21

It seems like a lot of people are stuck on the negatives of Deadly Shadows without mentioning the positives. For instance, sure you should be blinded by your own flash bombs, but at least now flash bombs aren't automatic blackjacks. That was cheap. Now they're for escapes and mad dashes past guards. Seems to me to make more sense. Furthermore, what about the AI??? They notice open doors, missing guards, and just about everything else. It is superb.

I also really like how much choice we have. What mission to do when, where to roam in between missions. Whether to ally with the Pagans or the Hammers... There's so much new here. Just because the game play is slightly different, doesn't mean it's not better in a lot of ways.

As far as the loot glint, if there was that kind of glint in T1/T2 it would have sucked. However in T: DS the loot in general is far smaller and more out of the way. If there were no glint it would be near impossible - not just the same as T1/2.

That's just my two cents. I loved the first two games, the original for its groundbreaking style of play and dark, engaging plot line, and the second for its brilliant variety of missions. I already love the third because three missions in I am already involved in so many ways with so many different plots within the city.

ejsmith on 28/5/2004 at 02:24

Quote Posted by ZylonBane

So you contend that the loot beacons, arrow trails, inability to be blinded by your own flashbombs, lethality of water, and blindness-healing powers of the blackjack are more realistic?

:rolleyes:

I'd completely forgotten about you. But don't worry; I just added you. You're just underneath Warren.

Lyansidde on 28/5/2004 at 02:24

I have been a strictly PC gamer since 1984, when graphics meant good text and stick figures. Originally, I had no intention of buying Thief 3 for XBox until I saw the system requirements. Next year is my upgrade year, so I found a good deal and bought the box 3 weeks ago. Needless to say I have had to practice a lot to be able to switch from my trusty mouse to a controller, but for Thief I was willing to persevere.

As I love games, including all FMs, but have never attempted to build them, I do not know a mesh, from a texture, from a brush, and Dromed shall ever remain a mystery to me. My limit with editing is following other gamers' instructions on how to tweak my .ini files.

This said, in spite of lethal water, non-blinding flashbombs, weird lock mechanisms and happy trails of light and glint, I think that Thief 3 is actually the best of the three games so far. It has enough prettiness and novelty to amaze me, music to die for, and a totally immersive plot. My idea of immersion is not whether I have to wait a few seconds for a zone to load, or can see Garret's feet, but rather whether I want to know what is going to happen to me (Garret) next, and caring about that occurrence.

On this score, this game has got me engrossed to the point of delaying bathroom trips and sleep. I can not address the technical points that have some in an uproar, but as for gameplay the game is extraordinary. Personally, I am grateful to Eidos, Ion Storm and all the people involved for a great game which I shall play over and over, until I get the PC version and the wherewithal to play it, and I shall then continue to play it some more.

Hoping for an editor, so those of you so inclined can start building more FMs immediately.

p7eter on 28/5/2004 at 06:55

i like it too> control felt akward at first< but now i love it

Jason Moyer on 28/5/2004 at 07:25

Didn't care for the controls much until partway through the training mission, but it kicks ass now. If it weren't for the zillion posts complaining about rope arrows, water, etc I doubt I'd notice any of it was missing. I think when I go back to play 1 and 2 again I'm going to miss the loot glint. :(

Edit: One other thing...pick up a bowl and throw it a few times at the guard standing outside your apartment. Nice to see they fixed that after DX:IW. :)

Jason