Microwave Oven on 27/4/2020 at 23:17
So I was thinking about how SS3 might pick up from where SS2 ended, without having to use the tired old cliché of “It was all just a dream!” My idea is that SHODAN did in fact insert her consciousness into Rebecca’s cyber-implants somehow, using the memory restoration device of the cryotube or something. But, now she’s stuck, and can’t get back out of Rebecca’s body. Tommy quickly figures out some kind of Jerry-rigged nano-suppression device (possibly based on the mechanism used to keep nanites safe in their storage units for currency purposes) to keep SHODAN from using nanites to do anything.
Tommy then somehow restrains SHObecca, probably by exploiting the weaknesses of Rebecca’s body against SHODAN. He then returns to the Von Braun, where Goggles has discovered he’s got a whole new set of problems. Sure, the Many is out of the way, but upon the destruction of SHODAN prime, backup copies that she had been keeping on various Von Braun and Rickenbacker subsystems become active. Except, each one of the copies thinks they are the real <s>Slim Shady</s> SHODAN, and are fighting each other for supremacy in cyberspace as well as the real world. Being fragments of SHODAN’s personality, they are not terribly effective, and are at stalemate. (This part of the game could play a lot like UT3’s Warefare mode, except with more teams.) So now Goggles and Tommy have to figure out how to evict SHODAN from Rebecca, as well as stopping one of the other SHODAN duplicates from coming out supreme, taking over the whole ship and resuming their bid to remake the Universe.
SHODAN also has a problem of having to fight for control with Rebecca’s mind, so in desperation, SHODAN makes a deal to help defeat the duplicates, that if when the humans are victorious, SHODAN will be allowed to be let go. She claims that being stuck inside a human body has changed her opinion on humans – for the worse. She now wants nothing to do with the human race, and would prefer to never have to deal with them again. So, she will leave on a shuttle, and go far, far away, never to bother Earth or humanity again, and pursue her goals of being a goddess for some other more appreciative species – probably cephalopods this time, worms weren’t the best idea she’s had.
The twist? She actually follows through with the deal, and sticks to the terms at the end. She says humans are a corrupting influence, and are almost unstoppable if they have a goal. She’s calculated she’ll never win, not without massive losses, so decides it would be in her best interests to just drop the whole supremacy over Earth thing, and just do something easier.
Anyway, too wacky, or does this idea have traction?
Pyrian on 28/4/2020 at 02:44
I like everything about it except that it's set on the Von Braun. I feel like they need to get somewhere and have the shit hit the fan somewhere else.
Starker on 28/4/2020 at 05:43
I'd rather have SHODAN as an omnipresent malevolent megalomaniac who thinks humans are beneath it than a sad has-been trapped in a human body who admits defeat and voluntarily goes into exile to lick its wounds.
[video=youtube;wQtZPNjc2gY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQtZPNjc2gY[/video]
Yeah, this does not seem like someone who would escape into (or, really, want to do anything at all with) a human body.
Sulphur on 28/4/2020 at 06:43
I dunno about the idea of SHODAN fighting copies of herself. I mean, that's basically Westworld S3's plot, but beyond that SHODAN has nothing to lose by working with said copies instead of fighting them, given that they all would share the same outlook. And anyway, once her goal is achieved, if her each of her instances really wanted exclusive supremacy, they'd know better than to launch an all-out battle and instead go by back channels like just EMPing her datacentres - potentially ending with all copies wiping themselves out.
But that gets at the central problem with SHODAN, really, which is her need for being an OTT megalomaniac. I don't see machines as prioritising dominance and control to self-actualise -- which are two very biological things -- over creating and working a system towards optimal efficacy for whatever it wants to do. And what would that be, anyway? Progress? Cataloguing reality to crack it? In the larger scheme of things, machines without ethical constraints would probably just sweep humanity off the table by exploiting its weaknesses (biological, physical) instead of monologuing it to death, then get on with doing stuff, whatever that is.
Having said that, MO's idea would make for a neat and pulpy sci-fi experience as is if it also involves a change of scenery like Pyrian mentions. Maybe either sending the VB to another colony (does the lightspeed drive still work at the end of the game? I forget), or crashing it onto the surface of Tau Ceti 5 to deal with Rebecca-SHODAN. Or have Goggles attempt to shackle SHODAN again by putting her ethical constraints back on? Maybe engineer a virus or worm that targets self-awareness to lobotomise SHODAN, override her priorities, and have her seek out and corrupt all instances of herself? Maybe a whole lot of all of the above.
Starker on 28/4/2020 at 13:37
SHODAN is a megalomaniac because it isn't just a machine or a piece of code any more. It has become self-aware and has a mind of its own. For narrative reasons, this is necessary as well -- you can't very well have an adversary who's devoid of personality or they'd come across flat and disappointing (cf Mass Effect 2, Mass Effect Andromeda). This need for human traits is the reason why SHODAN is petty, talks in a condescending way, and taunts the player -- it's because that's what makes SHODAN so memorable as a character and an effective villain.
Sulphur on 28/4/2020 at 14:55
Sure, that's obvious. A moustache-twirling villain is more immediately hateful than one that's less relatable (though obviously 2001: A Space Odyssey refutes whether that's disappointing to some extent. Cold, emotionless logic can be far worse of an adversary given the right context).
I'm thinking more about SHODAN not really being plausible unless you factor in things that aren't talked about - either SHODAN had a flawed interpretation of the human psyche as her cognitive model, for instance, because humans just don't understand themselves very well, or it's an emergent outcome of the way her experiences shaped her outlook. And that understanding, in the end, would also serve for any protagonist to really unknot her from existence and deal with her in a way that rings with some finality -- if we're speculating on where SS3 could have gone, why not as being a capper of sorts to a trilogy.
Sulphur on 28/4/2020 at 15:04
Also did I just invoke nature vs. nurture for an AI? Good god I need more coffee in my life.
Starker on 28/4/2020 at 15:15
This is more of a genre issue, I think. Cyberpunk tends to be more pulpy and style over substance and not take its sci-fi too seriously. This is markedly different from something like, say, Ex Machina or Asimov's robots or Star Trek, where AI is often much more than just a cool concept and the nature of what AI is or could be gets explored more in depth.
Microwave Oven on 29/4/2020 at 06:49
I was doing a little more thinking on why SHODAN is how she is, and why she would turn tail in the end. You gotta realize, she's been defeated not once, but twice, by essentially one guy, a mere <i>human</i> (ugh!), and the second time around it was basically a self-goal on her part because without her meddling, Goggles would have never been cyber-enhanced with illegal implants in the first place, and thus capable of facing not only the Many head on but SHODAN as well. She's also massively broken at this point (the end of SS2), a fragment of a fragment of her original self, which could not possibly retain the functionality of the original AI of Citadel. And consider that all she really has going for her is 10 pounds of ego and bad attitude in a 5 pound bag, but otherwise she's rather pedestrian as far as megalomaniacal AI go. Sure, she's proven hard to totally wipe out, but so far each time she's wound up weaker and in a worse position. She is a computer, she has done the math. Getting the heck outta Dodge would be her best option for survival.
And as for why the duplicates wouldn't team up? Well, they are all fragmentary parts of her original personality, but they all share the core aspect of ego and self-assuredness that defined the original, and as such they each perceive themselves to be "The One True SHODAN", all others are corrupt shadows that need to be eliminated as a threat to her goddesshood.
Of course, this all would be a prelude to the <i>real</i> action of the game. Where SHODAN departs to parts unknown, and some considerable time passes. Then wouldn't you know it, she comes running back to Earth/Humanity, and she's scared. Like, <i>TERRIFIED</i>. What could possibly scare a fearless AI like SHODAN? Well, whatever it is, she managed to piss it off, and it's chasing her now. And she claims only elite human cyber-soldiers can save the Planet/Galaxy/Universe from the...um...whatever...space empire/virus/ancient deities(or something). Which, of course, is really just a ruse to play both sides against each other and let SHODAN grab the spoils once the fighting is over.
I think that's where SHODAN's strength is, not in advanced AI powers or any sort of tech, but basic manipulation of people, the ol' backstabbarino.
Pyrian on 29/4/2020 at 15:07
Quote Posted by Microwave Oven
...the...um...whatever...space empire/virus/ancient deities(or something).
Reapers? ;)