Starker on 17/4/2020 at 01:58
Nope, I meant it. The final cutscene could have been just a nightmare Tommy was having and Rebecca didn't really turn into SHODAN. Makes far more sense than SHODAN being able to take over people's biological bodies.
Pyrian on 17/4/2020 at 07:41
Quote Posted by Starker
You could easily continue where SS2 left off with the final cutscene. For example... Tommy wakes up and Rebecca is okay and it was just a bad dream he was having.
Quote Posted by Pyrian
Poe's Law: Was that
supposed to be sarcasm?
Quote Posted by Starker
Nope, I meant it.
...Starker... It's
not continuing where SS2 left off if you're
retconning where SS2 left off. :erg:
Starker on 17/4/2020 at 09:08
Quote Posted by Pyrian
...Starker... It's
not continuing where SS2 left off if you're
retconning where SS2 left off. :erg:
Um, why? Everything that happened in SS2 still happened. SHODAN was defeated and Rebecca and Tommy return to Von Braun. Just that very last bit of the last scene will be revealed to have been a dream. Sure, if you consider the last seconds of that clip to be integral to what SS2 was all about, you could call it retconning, but I don't personally think it's that big of a detail in the bigger scheme of things and could easily be reinterpreted.
In fact, it would be a direct continuation -- you could play the very same clip at the start of SS3 and then have Tommy wake up.
Or you could have the whole thing be an effect of SHODAN changing reality that gets reversed when SHODAN is defeated. This is not retconning, it's just explaining what happened.
theabyss on 17/4/2020 at 12:11
Quote Posted by Starker
You could easily continue where SS2 left off with the final cutscene. For example... Tommy wakes up and Rebecca is okay and it was just a bad dream he was having. TriOp recovers Von Braun and SHODAN and tries to experiment with SHODAN in a black site somewhere in the Solar System. SS3 ensues.
Or the Escape pod returns to the Von Braun and the game continues the moment you are assigned to open the pod, finding two dead bodies in there. The minute the pod docked the Von Braun it was doomed because Shodan just used the connecting circuits to gain control and the fun begins again. :D
Pyrian on 17/4/2020 at 14:13
Quote Posted by Starker
This is not retconning...
Yes, it is, and it's one the worst kinds, too. Stop. Digging.
Quote Posted by Starker
Um, why?
Because you're
changing what previously happened. Do you just not know what retroactive continuity means?
Quote Posted by Starker
...I don't personally think it's that big of a detail in the bigger scheme of things...
You claimed this was continuing where SS2
left off, ergo the place where it
left off is directly relevant.
Don't get me wrong, obviously I "agree" insofar as I think that
not following directly on from SS2's ending is the right choice, but that's what your suggestion
is - it's
not following the ending, it's contradicting and retconning the ending, and that's just a fact. You could seriously just have TriOp experimenting with Shodan on a black site somewhere, as you suggested, without ever fully explaining what happened immediately after SS2, and that would be hands-down
better than your full suggestion.
P.S.: Shodan's appearance follows immediately after Tommy gets off the comm with goggles and turning the escape pod back to the Von Braun, implying that if the one is a dream, then so is the other. Makes. No. Sense.
heywood on 17/4/2020 at 15:14
Quote Posted by New Horizon
It would be really interesting to see a studio take New Dark, modestly update it and make a new System Shock or Thief game with it. They don't have to be AAA games, or low budget titles using Unity. If they truly want to dip back into that style of gaming, just embrace what made them work. I think a huge part of the charm of those games was the art style, which was partly influenced by the limitations.
Quote Posted by New Horizon
That looks really cool too. You can't make a faithful Thief game as a AAA property, there is just too much money involved and you have to lose so much of what made Thief the game it was, that you might as well just make a completely new game.
The time would be perfect to assemble a retro styled Thief game using New Dark with some slight updates.
I agree in principle. I would be very happy to buy new games that offer AAA level game design with A or even B level graphics. In fact, I would prefer it.
I am impressed with the graphical realism that modern games offer, especially outdoor environments, but once I get into the game I could care less. And I would happily jump off the system upgrade merry-go-round. I don't have time to play as many games as most people here, so I end up putting as much money into upgrades as games, which seems out of balance.
Unfortunately, there just doesn't seem to be enough of a market for games that are in between indie and AAA. My impression is that the best game design talent is either making a good living working for a major studio on huge projects, or off doing their own thing where they have full creative control.
Quote Posted by icemann
Regular - Yes
Detailed - No
To be more specific, what I mean is that sure we get monthly updates. But it will only be like "Hey guys, here's some concepts for a robot" or "Here's an animation" or "Here's a new barrel".
Where as what you normally get from a KS is:
"Hey guys. Here is the current state of the game". Then they go usually into:
* Exactly where things are at
* How many levels done
* Music / Sound
* Game engine development / Programming of features
* Current implementation of stretch goal features
* Estimated ETA on completion
Note not all of the above in an update, but a few of the above generally.
So with that in mind. We're getting bugger all info as to what's going on. How are the audio logs going? music? Weapons? We don't know.
It's disappointing, but I assume that if they had reached any significant milestones, they would have posted an update about it.
I'm sure they blew through the Kickstarter funding pretty fast, so the "team" may be down to just a few individuals working in their spare time making slow progress. Just a guess.
Whatever is going on, I'm not hopeful. If they need another round of fundraising to finish, I would donate. But I'm not sure many others would.
Starker on 17/4/2020 at 16:52
Quote Posted by Pyrian
P.S.: Shodan's appearance follows immediately after Tommy gets off the comm with goggles and turning the escape pod back to the Von Braun, implying that if the one is a dream, then so is the other. Makes. No. Sense.
The game never says one way or another whether this is real or not. At the very best, it comes off as some kind of a joke or a developer gag akin to an after credits scene that's not meant to be taken as canon. As a dream, it would actually make some sense, as Tommy is still shaken up after the events. And yes, of course he would be dreaming both things. He turned the shuttle around, fell asleep out of exhaustion, and saw a dream that dealt with the recent events. Haven't you ever had a dream about something that happened to you in real life that then got weird or took a different turn in the dream?
Also, I'm not "digging" myself anywhere. It's a perfectly reasonable interpretation and something that's not uncommon in movies where silly end of movie scenes are often treated as a joke, especially in the horror genre where the villain or the monster has a final surprise appearance after everything has returned to normal in order to tease a possible sequel. Rather, it's taking such things seriously and insisting that every absurd thing should be taken on its face value that's way worse than any "retconning".
ZylonBane on 22/4/2020 at 18:25
Starker stop starking.
Starker on 23/4/2020 at 04:38
I'd rather be starking than accept that SHODAN all of a sudden can take over human bodies (and start speaking and behaving out of character while at it) as canon.
theabyss on 24/4/2020 at 13:09
I just saw a trailer for "The Persistence" which gave me some System Shock 2 vibes:
(
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1140100/The_Persistence/) https://store.steampowered.com/app/1140100/The_Persistence/
Edit: Another thing that always bothers me with any kind of games that depict the inside of a spaceship is how much metal surface is displayed inside. I think that's what SS2 also got right, namely, that the crew quarters, for instance, looked comfy with carpet and such. I mean who wants to travel through space sleeping on shiny metal? I would think it should look more like the inside of a commercial airliner with a lot of rounded corners and some kind of cover for any metal plates.