Twist on 14/2/2013 at 19:38
I'm at work and I'm not intimately familiar with the exact files and folder structures, but...
voodoo: Can you use the ss2tool to create an install identical to the GOG release?
It may sound pedantic, but I'm curious if we can determine just how little work they actually did.
It would also be nice if someone like RPS covered this matter. Like ZB said, I doubt anyone in the community minds freely contributing to this cause, but not giving credit where credit is due is just... it's just startling, frankly.
The TTLG and SystemShock.org communities have sustained the playability -- and one could also argue to some degree the popularity -- of this game for well over a decade. A little credit where credit is due just seems like basic human decency.
van HellSing on 14/2/2013 at 19:53
Alright, looks like torches and pitchforks are justified after all. Carry on.
Kurgan on 14/2/2013 at 20:24
Here's my take on it:
Dude says he pointed at SS2 and said "Get 'em!" to his techies. Add to this his comment about it being an original version, merely with the usual tweaks and upgrades they always do for any game Gog releases (which actually makes perfect sense and isn't an insult to fan work at all). Now look at what hit the virtual shelves. What does all that translate to?
My guess is that he meant exactly what he said, and doesn't know that his "tech ninjas" sneaked a bit of that fan-made stuff into it. To me this is like being part of a Star Wars fan club and, upon watching another "special edition" spotting a Storm Trooper in the background wearing a t-shirt with the fan club's logo on it.
I don't believe for a moment this has anything to do with them trying to take credit for other people's work, and I think it has everything to do with that outfit giving a nod to us by doing the best job possible with what they knew we'd want but not expect to have been possible. I mean, c'mon... Night Dive... New Dark... derp. Not exactly subtle there. lol (It's also worth noting that, if this is indeed an outside design group working on behalf of Gog, there's a good chance the "tech ninjas" did exactly what they were told to do, which very possibly had zilch to do with the work Night Dive did. Just sayin'...
It's also more than likely that Night Dive was contracted for the single job, and isn't making money off the New Dark patch. Gog would not have knowingly added it or wanted to profit from someone else's unpaid work (you might not know it, but they're gamers and very cool folks who aren't in it for the money). Not their style at all.
So, rejoice you paranoid bums! Gog is now one with the many!
ZylonBane on 14/2/2013 at 20:36
Quote Posted by Kurgan
My guess is that he meant exactly what he said, and doesn't know that his "tech ninjas" sneaked a bit of that fan-made stuff into it.
Except that he explictly acknowledged, and dismissed, the fan-made fixes:
Quote:
Rambourg:
There are some user-made mods out there which do phenomenal work on the game’s stability, but none of them were quite perfect, so we took the game to our expert techninjas to analyse and swat the remaining bugs.
So much for that theory.
redrain85 on 14/2/2013 at 20:48
I'm guessing what happened is that Night Dive applied the fan-made patches to SS2, more or less claimed it was their own work, and GOG accepted their word. I don't think GOG would repeat the same mistake twice. (If I recall correctly, they didn't give credit to Timeslip and Child of Karras in the past.)
voodoo47 on 14/2/2013 at 20:52
that seems plausible.
the GOG package is the classic game, patched up with ss2tool 4.0, nothing less, nothing more. I might be just a fixer guy, but I know my files well. it looks like they ran the build at least once as the sound options are not set to their defaults, and the intro animation that only plays on the first run is already disabled.
no magic ninja stuff here.
Kurgan on 14/2/2013 at 21:40
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
Except that he explictly acknowledged, and dismissed, the fan-made fixes:
So much for that theory.
Uhm... no, not really. His awareness of there being fan-made material (which, btw, was what I was talking about, so it's kinda odd to use that as evidence that I'm wrong) and his decision
not to use it, followed by its ultimate inclusion, sorta brings us right back to my point, that it appears he's unaware it
was included.
And I think everyone's reading way too much into his so-called "dismissal." Not everyone is going to want to use every bit of fan-made material. Keeping the release as pristine, yet bug-free as possible is just logical, allowing the end-user to install whatever
they want to (and it's all linked to and described in the associated Gog forum for easy access, I might add).
Briareos H on 14/2/2013 at 22:35
You make things more complicated than they have to be. He said:
* There are community-made fixes. They are good, but not enough.
* Our experts spent a lot of loving time to fix the bugs that the community-fixes didn't.
The first assertion dismisses the community-made fixes.
The second assertion pretends that they did something to the game. It is a lie, they didn't. They installed an old version of SS2Tool (one of the "not-good-enough" community fixes) and shipped it, without any additional change.
In addition, they didn't ask any of the authors whether it was okay to do use their work, although with Thief they used Timeslip's work and paid him for it.
It is wonderful to see SS2 on sale, but however you look at things, people from GOG were not as honest and nice as they used to be. I also don't think Night Dive has anything to do with the whole story.
Petike the Taffer on 14/2/2013 at 23:05
Calm down, guys.
I suggest writing to the GOG.com staff and demanding that they issue a statement that some fan addons and patches have been added to the release, but they didn't ask the authors directly for permission. I think they won't have anything against a minor apology if you write to them sincerely and ask them politely to mention this fact.
In the end, it's not anything catastrophic. SSII can finally reach a new audience, the modder teams of TTLG or other Shock fansites will (hopefully) get their public apology (if not immediately, then eventually), the life of this game can and will be lenghtened once again. Everything will be fine, I'm sure of it. Let's just approach things with a cool head and be glad that Shock is back after over a decade of total limbo.
Good luck with clearing up the whole fan-made patches debacle with GOG !
Quote Posted by Nameless Voice
This has happened already. systemshock.org was hit by so many guest users today that it couldn't keep up.
I dare say that's excellent news.
